Residual affects of Cleth.

Jimmy's Camp

New Member
I have no equipment so I am forced to use the spray and throw method, with great success to this point but want to expand on the fall crop with a mix of rye, oats, peas, clover, chicory, PTT, radish and rape. I also live a good distance from the farm so I like to do everything in one trip if I can get away with it. Normally I spray gly., then spread the fert., then spread the lime and lastly spread the seed all in the same day

I have never planted rye or oats so in preparation for the upcoming fall plantings and I want to make sure that planting oats and rye directly after spraying a mix of cleth. and gly. on the grass that has grown in the plots during the summer wont have any residual affects on the new seed growth.

Thanks in advance.

Jimmy
 
If my memory is correct there is a 3 day residual on the clethodim, so it might be an issues for the wheat and oats.

Why do you feel the need to mix clethodim with glyphosate? Normal grass is very easy to kill .... Johnson Grass and a few others are a little more difficult.
 
I agree with FD, I normally have more trouble with resistant broadleaves (mare's tail), so I'm more likely to add 2,4-D to my roundup than clethodim.


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Thanks for the input.

Honestly, I have been using the spray and throw method for a few years with only BOB seeds and I believe that I am mostly dealing with some stubborn rye grass that isn't dying with the gly application. There are also a few other plants that I think are in the grass family that are growing that don't respond to the gly and I have read that clethodim might help get this type of stuff under control.

Through the years I have been able to keep the mare's tail under control by spending a few hours pulling them by hand early in the growing season. The fall plat that I planted last year (2017) came in great and carried through the winter but like I said earlier it was a BOB and was full of rye grass which came in well this spring but did not respond to the gly. Which is what I'm trying to kill.

This spring I went ahead and decided to try buying seed in bulk and mixing them on my own. BW, DV, SH & Alyce clover all came in great and the deer have been eating the plots, maybe too well. If not for the exclusion cages and 100's of pictures I would swear that the plots were a total bust. All I can say is, I wish that I had started planting bulk seeds sooner. I don't want to spend the time and $ buying seeds this summer that could have issues with any residual affects of whatever herbicide I decide to use and have crop failure.

If you guys that have far more experience than I do tell me that there is a better way I will listen and report my results later.

I appreciate any help.

Jimmy
 
Well, put one on your Christmas list! :) I was going to suggest a weed wiper and use a 50/50 ratio of water and glyphosate. A pretty stout mix .... it will also use any other herbicide as well.

Weed Wiper 5.jpg
 
LOL ..... I put 1 gallon of glyphosate and 1 gallon of water, run it at 5 mph and I covered 10 acres with it. It just drips and wipes. No hauling water and will kill grass and most broad leaf weeds, in my case, that are taller than the clover.
 
So back to the original question.

Would i be better off spraying gly only or gly with cleth or gly with 2-4D? And is there any risk of plot failure due to use of these herbicides?

based on the above mentioned 3 days perhaps it would be better to spray one weekend and then plant the following weekend. (hopefully followed up with some rain).
 
Did you build that weed wick or buy it? I have been wanting to get one for our UTV.

I wouldn't be afraid of spraying and broadcasting the seed the same day and have done it with great success for planting stuff such as millet and sorghum. In my opinion, the seed is not very likely to sprout during the first three days so even with a soil residual you should still be fine. This is my opinion, I am not an expert.
 
If you think you must spray, choose the appropriate herbicides for the plants you wish to kill. Glyphosate is going to kill everything. Let's just assume it will, that you don't have a resistance problem. If you are having trouble you might look at your mix rates; add more adjuvant/surfactant/ams or change your water source. Use the right nozzle (flat fan, fine droplets).

I don't see the need for cleth and gly. Sounds a little crazy to me.

For practical purposes glyphosate and clethodim applied at commercial use rates have no effective soil residual. If you chose to use 2,4-d you will face a short residual.

Soil
  • 2,4-D amine salts and esters are not persistent under most environmental conditions.3 Typically, the ester and amine forms of 2,4-D are expected to degrade rapidly to the acid form.3 Soil half-life values have been estimated at 10 days for the acid, diethylamine salt, and ester forms.44 Another study estimated a soil half-life for the ester form EHE ranging from 1-14 days with a median half-life of 2.9 days.3 In aerobic mineral soils, a half-life of 6.2 days was estimated.3 A granular formulation of the BEE form was detected in aquatic sediments for 186 days post-application, perhaps due to either the formulation or slow de-esterification of the sediment-bound chemical.3 See the text box on Half-life.
  • Microbial degradation of 2,4-D in soil involves hydroxylation, cleavage of the acid side-chain, decarboxylation, and ring opening.1 The ethyl hexyl form of the compound is rapidly hydrolyzed in soil and water to form the 2,4-D acid.1 Other comparative studies demonstrated that ester and amine salt forms of 2,4-D have similar soil dissipation rates because they are converted rapidly to the same anionic form.45
  • 2,4-D has a low binding affinity in mineral soils and sediment, and in those conditions is considered intermediately to highly mobile.3 In sandy loam, sand, silty clay loam, and loam soil, Koc values of 70, 76, 59, and 117 mL/g, respectively, were obtained,3 indicating low binding affinity in these soil types. Although 2,4-D is highly mobile, rapid mineralization rates may reduce the potential of 2,4-D to affect groundwater.46 Microbes may play a major role in degradation.2
  • Break-down products of 2,4-D detected in laboratory experiments included 1,2,4-benzenetriol, 2,4-dichlorophenol (2,4- DCP), 2,4-dichloroanisole (2,4-DCA), 4-chlorphenol, chlorohydroquinone (CHQ), volatile organics, bound residues, and carbon dioxide. These degradates are expected to be of low occurrence in the environment, of low toxicity, or both.3
 
The height is adjustable right? That way it only comes in contact with the targeted offenders.
Yes ... up or down ....... With clover and using glyphosate, if it touches some of the clover, it's not a real big deal. Clover will snap back.
 
Did you build that weed wick or buy it? I have been wanting to get one for our UTV.

I wouldn't be afraid of spraying and broadcasting the seed the same day and have done it with great success for planting stuff such as millet and sorghum. In my opinion, the seed is not very likely to sprout during the first three days so even with a soil residual you should still be fine. This is my opinion, I am not an expert.

Built my first one from parts, but it's a whole lot easier to buy one https://www.agrisupply.com/string-wing-rope-wick-chemical-applicator/p/71934/
 
Great feedback guys, thanks.

I will adjust my mix and go with straight gly, much cheaper than cleth. Stay tuned. Might be a while for any follow up though, way to hot to try and plant any fall plots in NC now.

Jimmy
 
Great feedback guys, thanks.

I will adjust my mix and go with straight gly, much cheaper than cleth. Stay tuned. Might be a while for any follow up though, way to hot to try and plant any fall plots in NC now.

Jimmy

3 ounces of glyphosate/gallon, which probably has surfactant in it, in a backpack sprayer, is a hot dose. Give that a whirl! Food plots don't have to be perfect.
 
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