Recreating a Deer Woods

[Chainsaw]

This is shaping up to be the worst March in the 15 years I have been on the hill. Three foot snow pack as of today and a very snowy 15 day forecast. Bye bye to last years fawns and another hit of the reset button. I am ready to check out property in Florida.

There are lots of ways we can help the deer thru our winters but deep snow packs this time of year is an obstacle that is tough to overcome. Your only shot and I believe it to be so is that most of the Hill's deer are here and elsewhere right now and not on the Hill. Only a percentage dare to stay on the hill each year and likely few of those that did will make it through. However most families migrate out and those that did are likely doing just fine. It is for sure that we have way more deer here than we had this fall; hopefully some of them came from your area. It is amazing how a little elevation and a few miles have such an impact on the temperature and pace of snow melting. If they are here they will return when the spring arrives there around mid April; it is just what they do. So keep on swinging Chummer, better days are ahead.

 

[Chainsaw]

wow - that is a lot of snow! Will the deer even fight through to get brassicas in that much snow?

Also 40-50 deer at a time, that is a LOT of deer. My goodness in my area of Ohio if I see 10 I am giddy! We have a lot of deer but they just dont seem to herd up like that.

Three feet of fresh snow does not stop them when they are feeling good. They can dig thru it. It is the packed snow, the kind that Chummer gets this time of year where a person can walk on without snowshoes and jump up and down with three to five feet of snow under him and not even sink in a bit. They can't even get thru a foot of that stuff.

Farmer and Elk, I hope you had a great thawing day today. We are down to just a few inches again with a lot of melting having happened today. Deer tracks are everywhere today and deer were seen off and on all day as they traveled about.

A friend of mine a few years ago before the real killing winter told me he had over 100 deer in his fields; He is known to sometimes maybe stretch things a bit. That afternoon as I drove along his property counting deer I estimated around 400 deer were seen. The next day I told him what I witnessed and he said it had been that way for a week steady but he didn't want anyone to think he was making stuff up! His property has very large planted fields with south slopes so they open up and grow new shoots earlier than the general area so the deer just pile up there during early thaws. Fall hunting wise, he has good hunting but probably not extremely better than other well managed properties in the area. Some of those 400 deer may live twenty miles away spring thru fall.

 

[Buckly]

In the Western part of the State the little sign on the corner, kind of our official measurement says 19' 1" here to date. Just doesn't want to go away this year. we have had 2 or 3 nice thaws. I've been observing the local herd behind the house and they seem to be holding up alright. For most of the winter they have stayed around the apple trees eating new sprouts and browsing low hanging limbs. One of the benefits of having hundreds of wild apples. They don't dig in any of the plots much here past December. It will be interesting to see what kind of antler growth we get this year as we've had a couple mild winters the last 2 years. Just the way it is in NY if you're in these lake effect areas.

 

[buckhunter10]

In the Western part of the State the little sign on the corner, kind of our official measurement says 19' 1" here to date. Just doesn't want to go away this year. we have had 2 or 3 nice thaws. I've been observing the local herd behind the house and they seem to be holding up alright. For most of the winter they have stayed around the apple trees eating new sprouts and browsing low hanging limbs. One of the benefits of having hundreds of wild apples. They don't dig in any of the plots much here past December. It will be interesting to see what kind of antler growth we get this year as we've had a couple mild winters the last 2 years. Just the way it is in NY if you're in these lake effect areas.

not to hijack the thread but out of curiosity - do you all notice a significant increase in antler size on years when the winters are less harsh?

 

[Chainsaw]

Good to hear from you Buckly. Here is no way of knowing for sure but I think the deer that live off of the wild apple forests are the absolute best tasting deer ever. Most people that don't get to see the use of apple trees first hand would likely never realize just how many months a year the apple trees are the go to spots. Here I would say the following months are apple tree months for the deer; January, February, March, July, August, September, October, November and December. April, May and June might be a little slow around the apple trees but we can just imagine how many apple tree seedlings sprout and are eaten during those months. Say one has five hundred trees times even only five hundred apples per tree times an absolute guess of six seeds per apple at 50% germination, that could result in 3/4 million apple tree seedlings to the spring/summer browse menu which could add April, May, and June to the list of heavy deer use months of apple tree products. Likely the number of apple seeds distributed throughout the property is many times more than that even.

As far as antler growth this spring and summer goes, while this winter had some especially tough periods, the few buck pictures we have gotten show some very healthy deer. Thus we can realistically hope for great things this fall. In addition one would think or at least I did at times that with all of the trail cam pics we get that all of the better bucks living or visiting on ones property are known but I am convinced that that is not the case. In fact I know it is not the case and I wonder Is there a Giant living on about every property that has never been photographed or seen? I'm becoming more convinced each year that likely there is.

Buck hunter, all questions and comments are always welcome and no hijacking issues ever. So no I really can not pin down an exceptional antler growth to one great/easy winter. My sense though is that two or three in a row would create that as might a low population and ton's of regrowth browse at the same time. Our sampling is just too small to make conclusions on that. For example let's say I shoot a 180 next season (about 40 bigger than any I have shot here to date). Would it mean a great antler year or should the 180 have been a 220? It is just too small of a sampling. Still we get excited when bucks come out of the winter in better shape than normal because logically they will have a better chance to have the nutrition needed to grow larger bodies and larger antlers. And if we have three "easy" winters in a row then we really probably have a chance. Unless you have hunted here you just can't imagine how small of a rack many 180 lb. plus dressed 3 1/2 year old deer have compared to other parts of the country. It appears to be not the effect of one winter but rather the cumulative effect of all the winters of a deer's life. But as I said, our sampling, the amount of deer we take is not enough for us to really understand the total picture from first hand experience.

 

[farmhunter]

Wow Chainsaw - you're down to a few inches again - did I read that right??
We've had a real rough week - this is the grill on my deck yesterday morning and my work today -

Gonna be cold a couple weeks too they say - we'll have some deer problems locally - hopefully not a the farm, but have to wait and see I guess.

 

[Elkaddict]

Finally made it to our place after 3 weeks. Snow is waist deep with another foot forecast this week. My 50lbs dogs sink to their backs. I’m hoping the coyotes are struggling to get around. With all the plotting and hinge cuttin we’ve done the last 4 years, our browse is in good shape. Of course, the deer have to be able to get to it..... With present forecasts, it will likely be 3 weeks before a significant thaw takes place.

 

[Buckly]

I agree with Dave 100%. Apple trees are king here and their use is unbelievable during the winter. As far as antler growth, here is what I have observed over time. Just as Dave said, 3-4 year old deer can have some pretty small racks and I think it's a cumulative effect. Average score for 3-4 year olds here is 110 to 125. Now after several mild winters I can see bucks that will go 125-140's so I do think it improves but, doesn't push them into Midwest type deer or anything like that. Compare that by going 20-30 miles from here where there is much less snow and I have regularly seen bucks taken and sheds found that will score 175 an one even pushing 200. Those are rare and on the high end for sure but, those type of deer will never be here in the armpit, "I mean snow belt areas". LOL

 

[Chainsaw]

Yikes guys you both really got hammered. Yes we are down to just inches now with some bare spots showing in the rye fields on the knolls. It is 37 degrees out in the shade the snow continues to slowly melt from the warm ground below and the high sun above. Hope you guys get a break in the weather soon.

Our scores are about the same Buckly with some years barely more like 100 inches is normal. However the general area here is not quite at never regarding 160 to 180, close to never but not quite. Saw one measured 170 plus taken in the neighborhood and saw a live one pre-hunting season MANY years ago that looked larger than that. They are extremely rare and close to impossible to ever see but not quite never. Of course we are just on the fringe of the lake effect snow belt getting hammered by some storms and barely missing others. Barely counts though!

 

[Triple C]

As much as i would dislike having to deal with long winters and all that snow, my guess is you don't have to deal with venomous snakes of a number of varieties or 98 degrees with 95% humidity in the summer. Ha! Every place has it's upside and downside. I was flying out of Chicago friday morning and guy in elevator lived in Canada just north of ME. Told him I'd never had a snow shovel in my hand and he told me he'd never had to wear snake boots.

Always enjoy your insight and commentary on your thread. I'm living in airports these days and simply can't get enough time at the farm or spend enough time on here keeping caught up on things. But...one day! Good Lord willing I'll be spending a lot more time at the farm.

 

[Chainsaw]

Thank you TripleC it is wonderful to hear from you as always. My advice and I get to give it just because I'm older and not smarter. Enjoy the season of the hustle and bustle of your profession as I'm sure you do. Long for the serenity of the farm but revel in the joy of the great working side of times before you. Retirement (actually semi-retirement as renting cottages is sort of work) for us is the best of times but surprisingly as we look back so was the game of "working". Still while I miss the challenges and excitement of the business world there is a time for winding down and just plain living at the property and truly being among the deer and the woods and all of its wonder. And while we still dabble in business with our cottage rentals we can see the season is very near that to just plain relax and pursue whatever things we want whether it be deer related, gardening or whatever, not to make a living but just plain old because we want to. Note; we still feel a need to pursue our activities to the fullest but just to do it and not because we must.

And you are 1,000 percent correct; every place has it's ups and downs and do snake boots really exist? When I am out in the driveway for the fourth or fifth day in a row in January snowplowing thru 3 or 4 foot drifts of snow and am not even sure if I'm in the driveway or not half the time, I think how nice it would be to live elsewhere; likewise in Mid August when the temps start out at 55 and hit a high of 75 or even 80 degrees and the refreshing breezes are coming off Lake Ontario I think why would I want to be anywhere else and that sentiment is always echoed by all present. And when we boat over to Boaters Beach, miles of shoreline accessible to only a very few we always feel and say we can't think of a place we'd rather be.
The sayings "every dog has their day" and "every squirrel finds a nut eventually" relates to many things including geographic location.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Thank you TripleC it is wonderful to hear from you as always. My advice and I get to give it just because I'm older and not smarter. Enjoy the season of the hustle and bustle of your profession as I'm sure you do. Long for the serenity of the farm but revel in the joy of the great working side of times before you. Retirement (actually semi-retirement as renting cottages is sort of work) for us is the best of times but surprisingly as we look back so was the game of "working". Still while I miss the challenges and excitement of the business world there is a time for winding down and just plain living at the property and truly being among the deer and the woods and all of its wonder. And while we still dabble in business with our cottage rentals we can see the season is very near that to just plain relax and pursue whatever things we want whether it be deer related, gardening or whatever, not to make a living but just plain old because we want to. Note; we still feel a need to pursue our activities to the fullest but just to do it and not because we must.

And you are 1,000 percent correct; every place has it's ups and downs and do snake boots really exist? When I am out in the driveway for the fourth or fifth day in a row in January snowplowing thru 3 or 4 foot drifts of snow and am not even sure if I'm in the driveway or not half the time, I think how nice it would be to live elsewhere; likewise in Mid August when the temps start out at 55 and hit a high of 75 or even 80 degrees and the refreshing breezes are coming off Lake Ontario I think why would I want to be anywhere else and that sentiment is always echoed by all present. And when we boat over to Boaters Beach, miles of shoreline accessible to only a very few we always feel and say we can't think of a place we'd rather be.
The sayings "every dog has their day" and "every squirrel finds a nut eventually" relates to many things including geographic location.

Chainsaw, I love PA, but it seems that the older I get the less I like snow. Is this just me, or do you identify with this?

 

[Chainsaw]

For sure Mennoniteman, the snow is becoming a real struggle. I don't mind plowing out the driveway once or week or so but when it snows day after day after day it really gets old. It is just such a waste of time, fuel and general resources. And walking thru it snowshoes or not is really physically hard. Our snowmobiles sit in their trailer with little chance of being used again by us; my wife is still up for it but I'm not enthused about it any more. We can easily get away during the winter now since we had the propane furnace installed but there is always the question will be able to get back here. During lake effect snow highway travel can and does become just about impossible to travel thru a snow band because you simply can't see beyond the hood of the truck sometimes. So yes the snow thing is getting old and possibly wintering in the south is discussed with more frequency lately.

Still though my honey-do list is very long and a lot does get done here on it in the winter months.

 

[Triple C]

Dave...You're a wise man. Great advice! I've had a great career and it just so happens at the time that I thought things would slow down a bit they are at full throttle with no end in sight. I have enjoyed the journey for sure and my guess is that I'll prolly miss it some when I'm done. But right now...I'm seeing too many airports! At least in my mind. I fall asleep most nights visualizing walking around specific areas of the farm...a familiar tree, vine, crossing, trail, each deer harvest and so forth. Hope we're all still contributing in the years ahead to Deerhunter forum! We owe a great deal to the mods and admin that started and continue to maintain our great growing forum.

 

[Elkaddict]

Dave, in my life, I can’t recall a longer winter or ever being more in need of spring. I too contemplate warmer environs for 3 or 4 months a year. That is when my Gotham working days have come to an end....

For sure Mennoniteman, the snow is becoming a real struggle. I don't mind plowing out the driveway once or week or so but when it snows day after day after day it really gets old. It is just such a waste of time, fuel and general resources. And walking thru it snowshoes or not is really physically hard. Our snowmobiles sit in their trailer with little chance of being used again by us; my wife is still up for it but I'm not enthused about it any more. We can easily get away during the winter now since we had the propane furnace installed but there is always the question will be able to get back here. During lake effect snow highway travel can and does become just about impossible to travel thru a snow band because you simply can't see beyond the hood of the truck sometimes. So yes the snow thing is getting old and possibly wintering in the south is discussed with more frequency lately.

Still though my honey-do list is very long and a lot does get done here on it in the winter months.

 

[Buckly]

Where to go? That's the puzzle.

 

[lakngolf]

Now Triple C I'm here to tell you to get done what you need BEFORE you retire. Where does the time go. Been retired 5 years and now busier than ever. Why? I have no idea but easier to be available for kids, grandkids, church folks, growing more maters and providing plants abundant to good folks, new hybrid golf clubs, grand sons more interested in hunting and a grand daughter who seems to love being with poppa. Impossible to turn anything down.

 

[dogghr]

For sure Mennoniteman, the snow is becoming a real struggle. I don't mind plowing out the driveway once or week or so but when it snows day after day after day it really gets old. It is just such a waste of time, fuel and general resources. And walking thru it snowshoes or not is really physically hard. Our snowmobiles sit in their trailer with little chance of being used again by us; my wife is still up for it but I'm not enthused about it any more. We can easily get away during the winter now since we had the propane furnace installed but there is always the question will be able to get back here. During lake effect snow highway travel can and does become just about impossible to travel thru a snow band because you simply can't see beyond the hood of the truck sometimes. So yes the snow thing is getting old and possibly wintering in the south is discussed with more frequency lately.

Still though my honey-do list is very long and a lot does get done here on it in the winter months.

Just have to choose moderation , Chain. See I can have my 20" snow last weekend and its gone by Wed. And temps seldom much past 80 in summer and usually tolerable in winter. But then I do have my warm beach just 5 hours away to escape when needed. But if anyone understands love of a land and putting up with the shortcomings, it certainly would be me, I get it. Have a great Easter, always enjoy your stuff.

 

[Chainsaw]

Just have to choose moderation , Chain. See I can have my 20" snow last weekend and its gone by Wed. And temps seldom much past 80 in summer and usually tolerable in winter. But then I do have my warm beach just 5 hours away to escape when needed. But if anyone understands love of a land and putting up with the shortcomings, it certainly would be me, I get it. Have a great Easter, always enjoy your stuff.

Thanks Dogghr! You might very well be in the best of both worlds. We used to have a crew from West Virginia that came up fishing each fall and stayed at our camps (we call them cottages in the summer but camps in the spring and fall). We shared some great campfires with them boys and they were a very happy bunch. And I'd have to say they were the fish catchiness bunch we ever saw.

 

[Elkaddict]

Dave, as snows melted and compacted, I finally was able to make it on the mountain for the first time in a month. Where I saw 30 deer a month ago, tracks were very few and far between. Where I did find them, it was clear they’d focused on apple tree browse. I didn’t appreciate how favored the browse was compared to an abundance of various maples, oaks and dogwoods. Sadly, I also found a number of carcasses (mostly fawns). I did not go through are sanctuary which is where most of our hing cuts are. Perhaps they yarded up. I’m hoping the bulk of the deer were able get off the mountain before the 40” or so we got a month ago. Sadly, I’m not optimistic. The 2 deer I did see were very thin.