Recreating a Deer Woods

I know what you mean by the ground not being frozen. Last week, on a day when the temps were in the single digits, I tried to get my compact tractor into a wood lot to drop a couple of trees. The snow was over the front axle, and I quickly found soft mud and water under that. I had to back out for a hundred couple yards, as there was no safe spot to turn around. Looks like I'll be staying on the high ground taking poplar trees this season !

Rusty


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We sure need the thaw.....and I’m sure the deer concur. Fortunately for us, the snow accumulation has been modest. I’m anxious to see how the winter plots are doing. I know the corn is being hammered for carbs to stay warm. I’m anxious to see what remains of various brassica mixes. When I was upstate last (a month ago), the additional deer numbers were really chowing down and at a pace that gives me some pause. I’m also anxious to check cams to see which of our big deer survived. In past years, our biggest disappeared after the 10/1 bow opener only to reappear after the MZ season ends just before Christmas. Crossing my fingers....
 
I've been there a couple of times Rusty. It was a scary adventure for sure. As in your case turning around was not an option with snow up above the axles helping take the weight off the tractor wheels making them lose traction all the more. The only shot way out was backwards by lifting the front end with the tractor bucket and pushing the tractor back wards a couple of inches at a time by curling the bucket. I think the worst time it took about forty feet of that to hit a high spot. And when you try to "plane" thru those drifts and the tractor loses momentum, it just sinks like a boat with the plug out. Your deer will surely appreciate the dropped poplar trees though. Glad you and the tractor got out.

With a full sun out and temps around 34, the snow is melting big time now, sliding off the barn roof as I type this. It's almost as exciting as hearing the snow geese flocks flying in when winter ends.

Elk, I hope your biggest shows up again. I too have a couple of cameras still out that will be pulled soon. There was one biggie left here near the end of the season that walked by me at 6 steps away while I was sitting on the ground against a triple trunked tree. His antlers were perfect but his body was down to nothing compared to what he started at. For a while he was hard to recognize. If you blocked out his rack, he looked like a small yearling rather than the beefy 3 or 4 year old he was early in the fall. I struggled a bit with it but just saw no point in shooting him at that point. I'm hoping he is still hanging in there.
 
Dave, please get yourself a snow blower for that tractor. I think you have more snow than me. This rain is knocking down before the new 1-2' tonight. We are at about 2' on the level right now. At least this rain will turn it into a glacier and the deer will be able to stay on top. They are going to be struggling come March, doesn't look good for next two weeks.
 
So far Chummer they are making it OK. Every time I see them bedded they are chewing so that is a good sign. Here are some pictures before the two day warmup thaw,after the two day warmup and then today, two days later. In this first pic this deer is struggling to move along. Luckily she is not sinking in completely.

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Neither the dog nor us can see out of this bank of doors due to the roof snow which slid off on the first full sun day.

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The stepladder works to see over the bank.
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Pictures showing the outside of the roof run off show the reason for having a two ft. roof overhang. Can you imagine the flood mess if this bank was against the windows?

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And then in two short days of fifty plus degrees our world is changed.

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Got out on this day and pushed all the snow banks back along the driveway in preparation for the next day when the thaw would be over. The next morning saw snow and minus a few degrees. However only eight inches fell so ground browse and a standing soybean field is again within the reach of the deer. And this morning two deer are bedding right along the edge of cover but right out in the open. They look as relaxed and comfortable as we are. However we are in 75 degrees (sunroom) and they are in minus five degrees. They sure are tough animals!DSC_3434a.jpg

More friendly temperatures (plus 10 to plus 30) are forecast starting in the middle of the week. Hopefully that lasts longer than the two day thaw we just had. The deer could surely use the time to restock their energy reserves in prep for the rest of the winter.
 
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I can't believe you lost that much snow in two days. We probably lost a foot or so. Looks like another three day warm up next weekend. Those are greatly needed. I will be on a boat in the Caribbean, so...
 
Brrrr I thought I was cold here. That snow packed up against the window looked COLD.
Good eye Lakngulf. That roof snow is hard packed and very heavy and has seen minus twenty something degrees. Luckily the snow does not touch the windows and when the sun shines in even at minus five or so the inside temp hits the mid to upper seventies by mid day. Evidently the sun reflects off of the snow and gets itself magnified.
 
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So how did we fail to take one or some of the larger “shooter” deer that were captured on camera early in the hunting season? As the saying goes, we failed to pick the tree when the fruit was ripe, at least partially. We’ll call the shooter deer # 1, 2, 3, and 4.

Deer # 1 was killed on a neighboring property a week before we started hunting. It happens every year that a few good deer are taken around the last week of October before the serious chase period begins not counting spikes chasing does.

Deer # 2 was seen by us only twice. The first time was by the only one of us that can shoot well out to 400 yards; he had the shorter range gun that day so of course did not even attempt the shot which was a solid four hundred yards out. The second possible sighting was only fifty yards away with the deer walking directly away but in the open. My wife decided to wait for it to stop and turn but it just kept on walking away. No cameras picked that deer up again after that and a deer that looked like him was killed Thanksgiving week on a neighboring property.

Deer # 3 disappeared from our cameras a few days before we started hunting. Note; counting plot watchers and trail cameras about 307 to 319 thousand pictures were taken WEEKLY on the property and deer # 3was not in any of them starting two days before we started hunting. Thus it is likely he either left for the season or just plain got killed elsewhere. There is also the remote possibility that he simply stayed deep in the woods during daylight as cameras were not placed in deep.

Deer # 4 also disappeared in late October and then reappeared late in the season as the rut was winding down. He walked within six yards of my ground position; the 3 ½ year old eight that in the October pictures looked like he would dress out at or close to 200 pounds looked like a scrawny 120 lb or less yearling with a giant rack later in the season. The small body made the rack look larger than it was. I just saw no point in shooting him in that condition. It was very late so I’m pretty sure he made the season.

So while we were able to grow a few bucks we considered special, we did not harvest any of them this season. In addition to starting hunting late and missing out on a couple of opportunities we also may have had unrealistic expectations? Next year we will likely hunt a little earlier if the deer are showing any signs of earlier movement and each of us will shoot what they want and I’m guessing that good 2 ½ year old deer won’t look so bad to us most days. Barring any unexpected long lasting winter storms yet to come, shooting a fair amount of does may be possible again also. A browse check walk yesterday saw a lot of browse left, and insane amount of deer beds in much of the property. A decent fawn year and we’ll have plenty again like before the 2013/14 winter that severely reduced the herd for the entire North Country.

So did we learn a lot? We'll see.
 
Getting caught up. I like snow but you guys, dang. Sure is pretty place you have love the windows. Great analysis of past year, hopefully it continues to build, you've worked hard at it.
 
I would definitely start earlier. I see the most daylight movement 10/28-11/3 then again around Thanksgiving.
 
Getting caught up. I like snow but you guys, dang. Sure is pretty place you have love the windows. Great analysis of past year, hopefully it continues to build, you've worked hard at it.

Thanks dogghr. The windows are great; we really enjoy the daily views from them. The snow is our payment for the cool summer breezes we get to enjoy. While spending winters in the south as many northern people do could be the best of both worlds, I enjoy just being inside and "working" on projects. Finally got the curly maple fireplace mantle cut up and mounted on wife Anne's fireplace frame she built earlier this winter. It came out very well. Had to rip the 3 3/4 inch mantle with a 16 inch circular saw; a bit over kill but it got the job done nicely. It is a very intimidating saw; when you pull the trigger it revs and twists kinda like a high horse car engine. Once it is running though it is smooth and very powerful. Had to put a wedge in behind it though to keep the kerf from closing on the blade. Once wedged the maple cut like butter. It is a beautiful thing to take a tree and turn it into part of ones house; it doesn't matter that it is not store-bought perfect. It is done to our best abilities and Anne and I are thrilled with it.

The deer population is exploding; It looked scary as the winter progressed though as the deer were there earlier in the winter with way more than last year but then suddenly hardly any were seen. The temps were minus zero as often as not and the snow was hip deep a lot. The walk in the woods earlier this week though showed that the deer spent their winter in the woods and still they didn't put a dent in the new browse. They actually hunker down in groups of three to eight and stay in a 1/10th of an acre for days on end until the weather breaks. Last year the browse was good but not exploded and the deer fed in the rye fields almost every day all winter digging constantly, one foot then the next always digging. It got them thru though. Only three winterkills were found so far this year; that is very low for us.

Now the deer are back in the rye fields which are 80% clear of snow and they are out pretty much all day. The bean field is completely empty of any live plants and even empty of any dead plants. It reminds me of a cattle loading area we used to see as kids; the soil is just plain bare- not a sign of any vegetation whatsoever.
 
I would definitely start earlier. I see the most daylight movement 10/28-11/3 then again around Thanksgiving.
I agree Chummer, seeing pics during the last week of October of the bucks moving and not hunting was killing me. My son and life long hunting buddy were scheduled to hunt around Nov. 5 to the 15 this year. I didn't want to go out and shoot my deer before they even got here so before they arrived I just walked the property lines to keep out the bad dudes. We can count on okay buck movement the last week of October and super buck movement the week starting Thanksgiving which however is often very cold. Here though with our low pressure hunting the big bucks also move big time during the day starting about Nov. 6. It is usually our most exciting time of the year to be hunting.This year it was not a good time for us; the deer could have moved then as usual but some of our best deer had already been killed and others had moved out. Usually the older deer don't get taken then, just the more adventurous 2 1/2 year olds. This year was different.

As where you are the general population in this area is still low; Only a few select properties are heavy in deer. So if or when "our" deer go on a tour there are few or no deer on tours from other properties to take their place. While we are heavy in deer we have pretty good hunting but with the rest of the area having very few deer, it does affects us greatly.

So what it boils down to after 60 years or so of chasing these critters, we still haven't quite got it down to a science. Most deer hunting questions are still answered with "well, it depends". No doubt there are absolutes but we haven't found them yet.
 
Very few absolutes in hunting. The only ones I have found are over 300" of snow every year and if you have any antler sticking out of your head my neighbors will shoot you. I was hoping your bucks would not have reason to leave. If yours are leaving then I have no chance of keeping them close. Of coarse they do not have to go far to get shot. Wishful thinking I guess.
 
I would go on record saying that there is an absolute that you have just pointed out; 'We can not stop the bucks from leaving". We can reduce the amount of time they do spend off the property thru habitat work and reduced pressure as compared the same property with high pressure and no habitat improvements but that is about it here.

Thinking of a property in its' entirety is where our logic gets off course. For example it is not correct to think that 600 acres will hold them, or even 2,000 acres will hold them. One of the more fertile areas of the property gets a large amount of deer activity. The area is a finger and end of the property surrounded by neighboring land on three sides. It is long and narrow. For a deer to wander and get legally shot off the property, he only needs to wander from 150 yards to 650 yards in any one of the three directions; that is impossible to control. The size of the property that finger is attached to is really irrelevant in its ability to keep a deer that tight.

I once followed a very large buck track in Stacyville, Maine on a fresh snow in peak rut time. It was the only track going into a property or coming out that one could find from the area roads. The deer traveled mostly perfect west and never broke his stride even when he stepped out onto the ice and crossed the East Branch of the Penobscot River which was just over six air miles from where I started tracking him. Seemingly, he didn't know I was there and there was no sign I ever even got close to him. That kind of deer would surely not have lived to an old age around here with habits like that. Walking and traveling for miles and crossing even major rivers with open water spots is just nothing to some of them. And they either don't know or don't care that when they walk off of my property over the boundary line past the backs of the NO TRESSPASSING signs painted fluorescent red on my property boundaries that it is a different world out there. There may even be hunters in the very first tree they walk by once they cross that line heading off the property and many of them in this area do not give any deer any passes.

On the bright side though while likely all of them leave the property some, many manage to see 2 1/2 years old and a few see 3 1/2 or even 4 1/2. That is a lot better scenario than when we first bought the property. Seeing a few does a week period was the norm and of the buck population other than that years fawns was about all we saw.
 
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Dave, are you expecting any significant snow accumulation with this nor’easter coming tomorrow? Our forecast has gone from 18” to <6”. I’m needing spring in a bad way.....
 
I think we are going to be OK Tom. No snow tomorrow(Thursday ) but snow all day Friday. Temps will be warm though like above 25 all week with highs sometimes at 40 so with the warmed up ground and a forty temp it may disappear quickly. Unless we get a really bad cold snap the deer will be OK. Temp wise right now it is so warm that maple sap is not even running although it is expected to run again on Friday.

I see many deer daily of course and some of the younger ones are definitely on the edge and don't even run when they see you. They are very vulnerable for sure and will not be able to take any extra cold weather. The majority of them though look very good. Anne and I on the other hand have had it with this winter. We definitely need to see green again SOON!
 
Glad to hear just 3 winterkills for you - You'll have the does stacking up next year no doubt - take em if you can use them.
This big meltback has really helped things out I'd say. This next snow even if its 2 ft will be too late to negatively affect our deer on our property - they've been able to get at browse and rye/clover for a couple weeks now - its like a lifeline was outstretched.

People keep talking about the warmest February in years - but ALREADY they forget that January was the coldest in over 100 years!
Most people have no idea, if February this year was like January was - it would have been real bad, we'd have had a real widespread winterkill. Most areas in NY have too many deer. Your area tends to keep itself in check - same with mine, mostly - but some areas -like around Syracuse and Ithaca - the deer populations just keep growing. They just keep setting up for a winterkill like we had in 2015.

This year even with the bad January based on my hikes - true winterkill has been minimal everywhere. I have seen where coyotes have taken fawns like I normally see - especially in January they got their share. All the coyotes on my property are fully furred this winter and look healthy to say the least (trail cams).
 
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You're right Farmhunter this winter could have been a big one had it not been for this last warmup. January was extra tough and parts of December even were really bad also. Technically the three winterkills mentioned were likely coyote deals that were made possible by the winter versus true starvation die offs in their beds. It is winters like this though that remind me to keep creating more cover and not let too many deer stack up here lest we could lose all of the young ones again. We will be monitoring what is left after spring green up (both deer population and browse percentage) and fawning season to decide on our doe shooting goals and strategy for the coming fall. This property has not been severely overpopulated in recent seasons but it does look like it may be at one of those possible turning points.

One thing for sure here is the coyotes do not make the winter eating rabbits; surprisingly there are very few rabbits around considering how thick the cover is becoming.

Edit note; even if the browse left over is 50% or more we will plan on taking does because if we need suddenly to take 30 or so, the DEC may balk at that amount of tags. Right now I'm at 5 DMAP tags and I'll likely try to up it to ten just in case we need to take that many. It is really hard to predict this far in advance. That would be in addition to the ten or so the four of us would likely get with our licenses.
 
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We are at 35” for this storm and it’s not done. I found 3 fawn jaws last time I was up. Expecting more bad news with snow this deep. Coyotes will have a field day if they can run on top when a crust forms.... Guess that’s life in the north country.

I think we are going to be OK Tom. No snow tomorrow(Thursday ) but snow all day Friday. Temps will be warm though like above 25 all week with highs sometimes at 40 so with the warmed up ground and a forty temp it may disappear quickly. Unless we get a really bad cold snap the deer will be OK. Temp wise right now it is so warm that maple sap is not even running although it is expected to run again on Friday.

I see many deer daily of course and some of the younger ones are definitely on the edge and don't even run when they see you. They are very vulnerable for sure and will not be able to take any extra cold weather. The majority of them though look very good. Anne and I on the other hand have had it with this winter. We definitely need to see green again SOON!
 
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