Qustion for the Raddish Gurus

[Native Hunter]

I don't know if this is scientific of not, but I had trouble with the deer on my property eating radish and turnip and I saw it suggested on some forum that smell plays a big part so the idea was to walk around the plot and pull one or two radish or turnip every 20 feet and lay them on the ground and stomp the crap out of them. Just mash them up so all that juice and pulp produces scent.

Deer are very, very good at smelling everything including food.

I tied this and it seemed to work that very same year. Suddenly browsing seemed to pick up on a plot that had just been left alone. Again, don't know if this is coincidence maybe, but it's free to try it.

Grouse

There may be something to that theory. Just before they started browsing mine so well this year I bushhogged a section of the plot to keep some pigweed from going to seed. It looked like a radish massacre. Right after that was when I started seeing the browsing on the ones in the other areas of the plot.

 

[Jason Broom]

I'd crank up the delay between pics if you're getting that many per day. Also, I'd do a buffet plot (many smaller patches with single species in each) until you figure out what their fall preferences are. The other thing to consider may be you're drowning in food right now, and they don't need it.

I've never had to do a buffet plot because our big limiter is winter food. The only thing I ever wondered is when they'd turn onto my fall plots and how long they'd last.

MD, you'd have to see NH's place to believe it...suffice to say that deer frequenting his property are ALWAYS drowning in food!

Whenever I plant brassicas in northern MI, the deer never let them produce bulbs. It doesn't matter if it's a straight brassica plot or part of a grain/legume mix...they wipe out the brassicas. I'm sure it's because there is basically no ag around to compete with and the surrounding soils have not been improved, the way I've built mine up. Deer can smell and taste better food sources, and I would humbly submit that if they're ignoring something you plant, it's because there's something better nearby. At the same time, if they hammer everything you plant, it's probably because you've got the best (most improved?) soils around. (Security also plays a big factor, which NH has in spades!)

 

[CentralKyHunter]

I don't know if this is scientific of not, but I had trouble with the deer on my property eating radish and turnip and I saw it suggested on some forum that smell plays a big part so the idea was to walk around the plot and pull one or two radish or turnip every 20 feet and lay them on the ground and stomp the crap out of them. Just mash them up so all that juice and pulp produces scent.

Deer are very, very good at smelling everything including food.

I tied this and it seemed to work that very same year. Suddenly browsing seemed to pick up on a plot that had just been left alone. Again, don't know if this is coincidence maybe, but it's free to try it.

Grouse

My turnip / radish plots put off a ton of smell. You can smell the very strongly while approaching, this has always been the case. I thinks it's the turnips putting off most of the scent.

I went and checked my plots, not much browse currently which was no surprise but I did learn that they LOVE chicken manure. Pics show where manure was piled and where it was missed.

No manure:



With Manure





Side by side

 

[Fish]

I had a rogue dwarf esssex rape plant growing in front of the stand this morning. Its big and healthy, but dont ask me how. Just a random seed dropped. Had a buttoon buck milling around down there and i heard him eating something. Yip, he was eating the DER. Never seen them touch the stuff before.

 

[Native Hunter]

I checked cameras today, and they are still hitting radishes hard. The pic below is one right beside the camera that I know hadn't been touched last week. Rut is hot right now. Hope it isn't over by next Saturday. Saw a visiting monster at 10 AM near my gate as I come in.

 

[dgallow]

Dgallow, do you think the addition of grains reduces the need to rotate away from brassicas every two years for pest/disease control?

Absolutely......diversity of plant and root brings diversity below and above soil....including predatory critters which feed on prey species. To have healthy predators you must have some pest species....or a surge of pests to get a surge of predators. Just keep fertilizer additions balanced and in moderation so you prompt healthy plants without a pest explosion....fertilizer rate and soil cover are two low stress aspects which you can control. Plant stress is a big opportunity for pest and disease attack....that is the natural model. For example, the work in SD showed that for every pest insect there are ~1700 beneficial insects in diverse systems....vs....about a dozen total insects in long term monocultures....and you can't just spray for the pest without killing the benificials.

There is no plant rotation in the natural system nor a good plant or a bad plant....there are simply different plants which occupy niches which favor their growth until conditions change and favor growth of more competitive plants or new plants. Forage brassica are much like the wild type brassica, they grow best in the most disturbed (impacted) areas. How many years the wild types persist depends on how long it takes for soil conditions to improve in favor of grasses and other forbs. I know of some plant pairs which can persist in degraded range conditions for 5 years without disturbance.....when disturbance is returned and planned, diversity resumes!

IF you understand all that, then you should envision a healthy mixed specie field as a 'patchwork' of different plants occupying different niches in different density...and it may look totally different the next year. My posts this week will show some of this 'patchwork' and how species vary according to impact.

Understand this....fall greens are low energy, very high protein, and high water....regrowth of winter greens have more energy, less protein and water.....winter tubers are a source of stored energy (carbohydrate)....but none of those 3 sources of plant material contain enough energy to keep an animal warm in a cold winter when more fibrous foods are needed to increase heat of fermentation in the rumen and slow metabolic rate.

 

[MarkDarvin]

At the same time, if they hammer everything you plant, it's probably because you've got the best (most improved?) soils around. (Security also plays a big factor, which NH has in spades!)

I firmly believe that as well. I liken it to the difference between a tomato from subway, and a tomato from your garden. Night and day difference. I'm an amateur soil guy myself, and I shoot for soil health and nutrient levels first, coupled with diversity in the mix. The rest will follow.

 

[deer patch]

NH...I thought of this post both Friday eve and Saturday eve while sitting on stand. I saw deer eating turnip bulbs both days but that's all they would eat didn't touch a top one. We have had only 2 to 3 frosts this year so I'm thinking the tops haven't turned to sugar yet.

 

[Native Hunter]

NH...I thought of this post both Friday eve and Saturday eve while sitting on stand. I saw deer eating turnip bulbs both days but that's all they would eat didn't touch a top one. We have had only 2 to 3 frosts this year so I'm thinking the tops haven't turned to sugar yet.

Well, I've seen it with my own eyes now. We started hunting yesterday, and I have watched radishes just get literally destroyed.

This morning we saw 17 different deer and this afternoon we saw two more new ones and possibly three - so I have watched 19 or 20 deer the last 2 days, and most of them ate radishes at some point when they passed through the plots. We were watching so many deer at different spots on the farm that we let one of our target bucks walk right through the plot, and before we could get a shot, he had moved out of sight.

Another thing that impressed me was how they ate the tall cereal grains. I have worried in the past about planting too early and grains being so mature that they lose palatability - won't worry about that anymore.

Strange thing this year - never seen my plots eaten so hard - yet, it is a fantastic year for acorns. Goes against traditional wisdom.

My theory - I only started plotting in 2012, and I'm in an area where there are no other food plots for a long distance. I think over this 5 year period the plots have become a draw that deer have etched in their minds and become normalized to. Just a theory.

But, I still can't explain why chicory was such a big hit from the very beginning....still thinking about that one.

 

[dogghr]

Well, I've seen it with my own eyes now. We started hunting yesterday, and I have watched radishes just get literally destroyed.

This morning we saw 17 different deer and this afternoon we saw two more new ones and possibly three - so I have watched 19 or 20 deer the last 2 days, and most of them ate radishes at some point when they passed through the plots. We were watching so many deer at different spots on the farm that we let one of our target bucks walk right through the plot, and before we could get a shot, he had moved out of sight.

Another thing that impressed me was how they ate the tall cereal grains. I have worried in the past about planting too early and grains being so mature that they lose palatability - won't worry about that anymore.

Strange thing this year - never seen my plots eaten so hard - yet, it is a fantastic year for acorns. Goes against traditional wisdom.

My theory - I only started plotting in 2012, and I'm in an area where there are no other food plots for a long distance. I think over this 5 year period the plots have become a draw that deer have etched in their minds and become normalized to. Just a theory.

But, I still can't explain why chicory was such a big hit from the very beginning....still thinking about that one.

Your chicory has lined the highways for years as a native plant and the deer have eaten it for a long time. You planting in a plot, just carries over what they have been feeding roadside. Not a highway I don't go down that chicory blooms aren't common. I couldn't get my deer to hardly eat chicory until I began to let them grow tall as seen roadside. I just never realized how much they loved the stuff till you came along, Native.

 

[Jason Broom]

I think the quality and composition of soils has everything to do with how animals target, or ignore, various food sources.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[George]

I can buy that.

I'm pretty sure that the mule in my yard never saw a brassica plant in their lives before my food plot.

 

[deer patch]

I've seen the same thing here. My dad told me I've turned the deer into grazers instead of browsers. I think it's more the diversity of food that they are looking for. We will have good acorn crops and you can still see deer in the plots. Harvest a deer and look inside...You will see all kinds of food.

 

[Scott44]

Another thing that impressed me was how they ate the tall cereal grains. I have worried in the past about planting too early and grains being so mature that they lose palatability - won't worry about that anymore.
.

The same here this year, I planted my cereal grains a couple weeks earlier than I usually do. I had oats that actually headed out and they are getting eaten. Every sit I have had this year where I can see the cereal grains they have been in there so no more worries here about cereal grains getting too tall/tough.

 

[Native Hunter]

Scott, My oats have headed out too. I mixed wheat and oats for my cereal grains, but had a higher percentage of wheat. My plots were planted August 13.

5-6 weeks ago I got some rye and spread in the bare spots, but we haven't even had enough rain since then for the rye to germinate.

 

[George]

I used to grow rye heads all over the place, one day I would wonder if anyone was going to eat them, the next they were all gone.

G

 

[Scott44]

Scott, My oats have headed out too. I mixed wheat and oats for my cereal grains, but had a higher percentage of wheat. My plots were planted August 13.

5-6 weeks ago I got some rye and spread in the bare spots, but we haven't even had enough rain since then for the rye to germinate.

Ours were planted in that same time frame, mid Aug.

 

[Fish]

I have oats heading out as well. Crazy. Planted early September.

 

[MarkDarvin]

I did a throw and mow July 4th weekend. I had oats and iron clay cowpeas in the spring. When the oats began to head out, I spread my fertilizer and rye and just mowed it down on top of it. Well it's been four months since then, and the rye is still green and good looking. Deer are still eating it.

 

[dgallow]

Strange thing this year - never seen my plots eaten so hard - yet, it is a fantastic year for acorns. Goes against traditional wisdom.

My theory - I only started plotting in 2012, and I'm in an area where there are no other food plots for a long distance. I think over this 5 year period the plots have become a draw that deer have etched in their minds and become normalized to. Just a theory.

But, I still can't explain why chicory was such a big hit from the very beginning....still thinking about that one.

Deer don't raid gardens in your neighborhood?.....a form of nutritional wisdom?

Why not ask the guy who has spent his whole life studying ruminant selection, preference, intake and acceptance of new food? Soils and soil fertility are a part of it....but the bigger part is the order in which plants are eaten and availability of plants complimentary to the one just eaten.

This pair of videos will probably be the best you will see on plant variety and animal selection....after watching you should be able to explain better some of your observations. Glucosinolates are the toxins in brassica....you can add that to Fred's list of secondary compounds which regulate selection and intake. The animal is limited both in total toxins intake and intake of each individual toxin relative to the amount of protein, energy, and minerals available. The liver can handle a higher toxin load under high rather than low nutritional status. Just watch the damned presentations!

GFE 2016 - Dr. Fred Provenza "Spice of Life"

GFE 2016 - Dr. Fred Provenza "Web of Life"

+