Questions for a Beginner - Good Clover Seed & Soil Test?

[MarkDarvin]

I love a good debate! This is exactly what I was hoping for. I know pH is essential - the map from X-Farmer Dan is great...and helpful. I checked my pH and in the bottom land - where my uncle planted corn and sorghum over 10 years ago - I'm getting about 6.1. Up on the hill where there was some cleared pasture, it's coming in at 5.65 - pretty close to what that map predicts. I'll probably spread lime on both areas. Any recommendations on lime application are appreciated!

The rest of the nutrient picture seems to me to be less essential, although I know that's up for debate. One thing I tend to think about is a load of hay I bought a few years back from a crusty old local farmer. I can't say it was alfalfa, clover, or what... or what he intended for it to be. It was a little of everything, and a lot of weeds. But, my goats loved it. His planting and fertilization schemes weren't up to date and would likely have made the county extension agent throw up in his mouth. But, my goats couldn't get enough of it. And they did well on it. Unfortunately, that farmer passed on about a year and a half ago. The nice, clean, alfalfa and clover I've bought since then from modern farmers who do all the soil testing isn't nearly as attractive to my goats.

Shop your lime source. It's important to know what the calcium/magnesium content of your soil is. In the event you're heavy on one, you don't want to compound the problem by putting the wrong lime on. Get this right, and plotting is a lot of fun for years to come.

 

[Winesburg Duroc]

I thought I should give you all a quick update on the results of my frost seeding - it's pretty interesting. I ended up planting about 2 total acres in three plots. One of them was bottom ground where corn and sorghum had been planted a number of years ago. The pH in that field was already decent - a little north of 6. That plot is doing great. I'd say I've got better than 60% clover cover and much of that clover is already 12" high. I have limed that plot and fertilized.

Another plot is a little higher up on the hill where cows had been pastured for years. The pH there was close to 6. I laid a good deal of pelletized lime there - part of the area I burnt off before planting and part I just mowed and raked. No surprise, the area that was burnt off is doing much better with clover. I'd say I have about 75% clover cover there, although the clover isn't as tall as it is in the bottom ground - but that may be due to the fact that I sowed it 2-3 weeks later.

The final area I planted was also bottom ground, but it hadn't been planted with any crops in recent memory. I have to admit that I didn't do a great job raking this area and I only burnt off small areas (one area I was burning nearly got out of hand and only a Providential shift in the winds kept things from getting ugly). This plot has a good deal of clover shoots, but it also has heavy grass growth that I suspect will inhibit the clover. Right now, I'm planning to mow this plot to see if that gives the clover a fighting chance. If the clover loses out, I'll plant brassicas here in late fall.

My take-away from this work is: 1) Early frost seeding is more effective - some folks told me to wait until late March to seed because they were concerned the clover would sprout during an early warm spell and then get killed off by a hard freeze. We didn't have a hard freeze in March, so the seed spread in February had a big advantage. 2) Seed bed prep is key - burning off the area before planting made a huge difference, although really intensive raking was pretty close. But, intensive raking is ...intensive. Not something I'd want to do on a plot larger than 1/4 acre and without the help of my teenage sons. 3) Basic grain elevator seed has done just as well as food plot seed...thus far. My best plot was planted with Ladino, Alsike, and red clover from the local grain elevator. While this plot has grown impressively, I'm not certain the local deer are grazing it yet.

 

[MarkDarvin]

Did you end up soil testing? If it looks good and isn't getting eaten, it either wasn't needed, or you're missing something.

 

[Mennoniteman]

Sometimes it takes deer a little bit to really key in on a new plot, set up a camera in field scan mode and see what you've got. I've also read bogus advice online on early frost seeding, the reason that it's called frost seeding is because, like you learned through experience, it's best done early when there's still freezing going on. Clover is very cold hardy and the roots don't freeze out easily. Anyway, what I wanted to tell you is that you could probably easily save that field that has a grass problem by spraying it with clethodim to kill the grass. Clethodim is cheap and readily available at places like tractor supply or rural king. And it's a good idea to stay on top of the grass control in your other plots before it gets too bad, grass and clover are always in competition with each other for nutrients and the one will always choke the other out on the long run. Clethodim works best on short grass in the spring, and it works slowly, so it can be 3 weeks before you see a difference.

 

[Drycreek]

Sometimes it takes deer a little bit to really key in on a new plot, set up a camera in field scan mode and see what you've got. I've also read bogus advice online on early frost seeding, the reason that it's called frost seeding is because, like you learned through experience, it's best done early when there's still freezing going on. Clover is very cold hardy and the roots don't freeze out easily. Anyway, what I wanted to tell you is that you could probably easily save that field that has a grass problem by spraying it with clethodim to kill the grass. Clethodim is cheap and readily available at places like tractor supply or rural king. And it's a good idea to stay on top of the grass control in your other plots before it gets too bad, grass and clover are always in competition with each other for nutrients and the one will always choke the other out on the long run. Clethodim works best on short grass in the spring, and it works slowly, so it can be 3 weeks before you see a difference.

Ditto on what MM said about cleth. If the grass gets away from you, mow it, wait a couple days then spray with cleth. I've had better luck killing mature grasses after mowing. That stimulates growth and will help the grass take up the herbicide a little better.

 

[Winesburg Duroc]

Thanks for the suggestion on Cleth. I picked up some Butyrac that I plan to spray on a few areas where broadleafs are a little out of hand. I'll get some Cleth, too.

I didn't end up doing full soil tests - just pH. I'd have to have done 3 or 4 tests, which would have run nearly $100 total, and that just didn't seem to make sense compared to the cost of seed and fertilizer. I suspect deer are grazing on the good areas of clover, but things are growing so quickly that it's hard to find signs of grazing. I need to move my trail cams to keep a better eye on those areas.

Part of the situation is that deer numbers in my area appear to be low. 20 years ago, when this property and the others around it were planted in corn, sorghum, clover, beans, etc., the deer numbers were quite good. But, 2 decades later, there is almost zero crop acreage within 3 or 4 miles, maybe more. The farms have died off and the land is mostly going back to timber. Coyotes and bobcats are showing up on all my trail cams. I'm hoping my food plots will encourage the local deer to hang around and provide improved nutrition - helping boost numbers. I know I'll have to do a lot more than a couple acres to make a real difference, but Rome wasn't built in a day .