Persimmons...how do I love thee...let me count the ways.....

Discussion in 'Fruit Trees' started by Native Hunter, Sep 13, 2018.

  1. David

    David Active Member

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    I recently did some field work with my native persimmons. I had identified dozens and dozens of naturally occurring persimmons this summer and tagged them. They were spared from the bush hogging in my "homestead" field.

    I'm rolling into my 4th year as a land owner and I had mowed and set fire to this field once 2 years ago.

    I left most of them to grow on their own and plan on being patient with half and grafting half from local females next winter.

    I was extremely curious as to how I could have sooooo many growing in a field that had sooooo few females near by. I chalked it up to critters eating on some near by healthy females and using my fields as their toilet.

    Part of my plan was to transplant around 10-20 of them into strategic locations for hunting. I figure as time passes, between the ones I transplant, graft, and leave alone, I will end up with some good fruit.

    What I found when I began to dig some of the smaller ones up was they were growing from old stumps/roots. A dozen trees shared a single parent. There wasn't a single trees that appeared to actually be a seedling.

    My fear is that this will reduce the chances of a good statistically 50/50 ratio of male to female. That perhaps 5 old males are responsible (through their root system) for the 50-60 trees I'm working on.

    Time will tell.
     
    Mennoniteman likes this.
  2. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    If your pics won't post because the file size is to big you can reduce the file size the redneck way; open the picture you want to post and take a screenshot of it, open the screenshot version and trim the unwanted edges off. A roundabout way, but the resulting picture now has a much smaller file size, allowing you to upload it to the site. A really big file size you have to do this twice.
     
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  3. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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  4. Headdigger

    Headdigger Member

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    David, I would like to know how your transplanting project works out. I have dug up and transplanted dozens of persimmon trees that were root sprouts. I have had poor luck getting them to come out the following spring. I just bark graft them where they are growing now.
     
  5. David

    David Active Member

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    I will let you know. Once I discovered they were not true seedlings i worried about my success rate.
     
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  6. pinetag

    pinetag Well-Known Member

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    Native, I recently came across this lone persimmon and was wondering...what do you think the odds are that a single tree like this will produce? Obviously it's a little too tall to check the flowers for male/female.

    I just planted 10 new seedlings a couple weeks back so I'll be keeping an eye on those in the future, but for now this is the only native tree I have come across on my place.

    [​IMG]

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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    It should produce if it is a female. However, that nearby tree looks to be shading it out some.

    You could consider cutting that nearby tree, but, there is a danger in doing that. A tall spindly persimmon that has been growing near competition can actually use those trees to lean on when loaded with fruit. Cut the nearby tree and the persimmon can break from fruit overload. I had it to happen one time. It's a tough call but one you don't have to make that call right now. Watch it a couple of years and see what happens.

    This won't happen to trees you set out in a place where they are not forced to grow tall and skinny. But, in the woods its a real possibility.
     
  8. pinetag

    pinetag Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a no-go on cutting it down. I don't have a pic to show you but the two trees are basically growing together at the bases. I could probably girdle it up high where the trees separate but that may be iffy too. I'll get a pic next time I'm down there.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
     
  9. David

    David Active Member

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    Looking like all are leafing out. We will see what happens at the end of the summer. I like to plan jobs for myself in the future, I'm in this for the long haul. plan is to graft the majority to female in the future.
     
  10. BigMike

    BigMike Member

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    Butcher likes this.
  11. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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    If you are in 6B or south of it, you should be able to start sexing persimmons. Guys to the north may have to wait a few more days. These pics from today. First pic is a male and last two pics are females.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. David

    David Active Member

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    Thanks for the tip! Very helpful.
     
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  13. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I have another tip for you David. If you have a tree that is starting to get fairly large (maybe over 10 feet) and it hasn't made any flowers yet, there is a good chance it is a female. I've noticed that most males start making flowers earlier. If you let one go, and happen to get a male instead of a female like you were expecting, you can still go ahead and topwork it later.
     
    David likes this.
  14. lakngolf

    lakngolf Well-Known Member

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    Ok native do I have a pair here? Sorry first pic twice
    20190505_204717.jpg 20190505_204717.jpg 20190505_204658.jpg
     
  15. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Lak, I'm seeing nothing but male flowers in all three of your pictures.

    But here is another thing to keep in mind that is seldom mentioned - although it is uncommon, it's possible for an occasional tree to produce both male and female flowers. This is sometimes referred to as a "perfect tree."
     
  16. lakngolf

    lakngolf Well-Known Member

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    Native. You burst my bubble! I never was good a those science labs where you had to identify stuff.
     
  17. lakngolf

    lakngolf Well-Known Member

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    This one I know to be female.....has been producing for years
    w3s.JPG

    The next two were planted in 2013, from seed growing, One of them produced last year. What say you?
    w1s.JPG

    w2s.JPG
     
  18. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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    The first picture is definitely a female. The last picture is definitely a male. I can't see the middle very well but almost sure I see two male flowers. Perhaps if one of those produced last year like you said, it may be a tree like I mentioned that can have both (a perfect tree). Basically, I see no female flowers on the last two. If you see more than one flower coming off at the same place it will be a male, and I can see that. Also the shape of the flowers on the last two are male.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  19. David

    David Active Member

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    native, I did some investing at my place today. Found a few that were easy to ID and a few I will ask about later when I can post pics.

    one question I did have: I read a fella on a differant forum claim he quit sexing his persimmons after he realized he can get fruit sooner by grafting when the tree in question is 1 inch in diameter at the desired grafting height. claims fruit will come in the third/forth year after grafting on to a 2-4 year old tree. The alternative was to wait for females to produce on their own and that could take 8-12 years.

    simply put he grafts all he finds.

    what do you think about that idea.
     
  20. David

    David Active Member

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    20190508_123427.jpg 20190508_124149.jpg 20190508_124220.jpg 20190508_125847.jpg

    first one a male? the next three female?
     

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