One Thousand Chestnut Trees - a Whitetail Deer Project
- Thread starter wbpdeer
- Start date
1. D60 pots from greenhouse mega store they are 2.5" diameter and 14" tall
2. Range from just showing top growth to and 10 to 12" with no leaves to 6
3. I watered when I put the seeds in and just watered last weekend witch was about 2 weeks I would say. With everything i have read been concerned with over watering so...may not be watering enough. Been digging down in the soil to see if it is still damp. Had been getting down 1.5" maybe 2" and the soil would be damp not wet but not dry being as the pots are so deep I figured there would be plenty of water in there and did not want to drown them so... I didnt water
4. Growing under compact fluorescent (cause that's what I had and they are cheap lol) and they are about 6" or so away
5. Whimpy and limp
6. I have 43 in pots now with some not showing top growth yet and another 40 or so still in the fridge. Didnt not mean to have this many but bought a pound and thought I had molded cause they had started to get like white fuzzy growth on the seeds. So I bought another pound. Turns out the fuzzy stuff was completely normal so I now have 2 lbs of seeds I'm growing lol. May be a lil much for a first timer but figured with the number hopefully I will end up with at least a few trees to plant this fall
I am on well water but have no idea what the ph is
It won't let me upload pictures from my phone onto here for some reason so could I send them to the email you have posted on this thread? Just think pictures would do a lot better of explaining what's is going on than I can
2. Range from just showing top growth to and 10 to 12" with no leaves to 6
3. I watered when I put the seeds in and just watered last weekend witch was about 2 weeks I would say. With everything i have read been concerned with over watering so...may not be watering enough. Been digging down in the soil to see if it is still damp. Had been getting down 1.5" maybe 2" and the soil would be damp not wet but not dry being as the pots are so deep I figured there would be plenty of water in there and did not want to drown them so... I didnt water
4. Growing under compact fluorescent (cause that's what I had and they are cheap lol) and they are about 6" or so away
5. Whimpy and limp
6. I have 43 in pots now with some not showing top growth yet and another 40 or so still in the fridge. Didnt not mean to have this many but bought a pound and thought I had molded cause they had started to get like white fuzzy growth on the seeds. So I bought another pound. Turns out the fuzzy stuff was completely normal so I now have 2 lbs of seeds I'm growing lol. May be a lil much for a first timer but figured with the number hopefully I will end up with at least a few trees to plant this fall
I am on well water but have no idea what the ph is
It won't let me upload pictures from my phone onto here for some reason so could I send them to the email you have posted on this thread? Just think pictures would do a lot better of explaining what's is going on than I can
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
I think you are telling me you are going at least a week or more without watering these seedlings that are growing. The pots you describe or small in circumference and very tall. When you water do you see water come out the bottom of the tall narrow growing containers.
I would put a fan on them for two hours and see if that helps the process. Try to find someone who will test your well water. Nurseries are who i would ask if they could help me out. If that is a no - go to a hardware store or grow shop and get what you need to test. City water departments can test the water if you can sweet talk them into helping.
I usually water about every 3rd day or 2nd day. I grow in an insulated box with a heater. I get the temperature high to promote warm soil that wakes up the chestnut. You have good germination it appears.
Here is what I think. 1. You need to water them now and watch the water drain out the bottom. 2. You need to give them fan time to dry them out. 3. When you water keep it too as small of amount as you can to see it come out the bottom. 4. Water more frequently. 5. Use the fan (buy a timer so it is an exactly amount of time).
We want a roller coaster - dry - water - dry - water - dry. To shorten the cycle from dry state thru water state back to dry state we reduce the volume of water we use.
We need to confirm the pH of our well water.
MY MISTAKE - I failed to ask so now I need to know what is the temperature where these pots are sitting that have the seedlings?
I like 68 to 78 degrees - it takes a heater to get that but that helps shorten the cycle from dry state - wet state - back to dry state.
We need air under the bottom of the growing containers. Two things a chestnut root needs 1) Water, & 2) Oxygen.
Chinese Chestnuts are less finicky than Dunstans. I have grown Dunstans in the same grow box with Chinese - what works for one works for the other.
The people that like mary jane smokes (grow shop people) to me know as much about container growing as anyone. I go to a shop in Murfreesboro, TN. I am 65 years old and smoke free, alcohol free, tattoo free and no piercings. But knowledge is power and those dudes are knowledgeable growers. They like helping this square ole timer too. If you can find a shop like that - use their knowledge.
If your temps are in the low 60s - I say that has something to do with the whimpy leaves.
Wayne
I would put a fan on them for two hours and see if that helps the process. Try to find someone who will test your well water. Nurseries are who i would ask if they could help me out. If that is a no - go to a hardware store or grow shop and get what you need to test. City water departments can test the water if you can sweet talk them into helping.
I usually water about every 3rd day or 2nd day. I grow in an insulated box with a heater. I get the temperature high to promote warm soil that wakes up the chestnut. You have good germination it appears.
Here is what I think. 1. You need to water them now and watch the water drain out the bottom. 2. You need to give them fan time to dry them out. 3. When you water keep it too as small of amount as you can to see it come out the bottom. 4. Water more frequently. 5. Use the fan (buy a timer so it is an exactly amount of time).
We want a roller coaster - dry - water - dry - water - dry. To shorten the cycle from dry state thru water state back to dry state we reduce the volume of water we use.
We need to confirm the pH of our well water.
MY MISTAKE - I failed to ask so now I need to know what is the temperature where these pots are sitting that have the seedlings?
I like 68 to 78 degrees - it takes a heater to get that but that helps shorten the cycle from dry state - wet state - back to dry state.
We need air under the bottom of the growing containers. Two things a chestnut root needs 1) Water, & 2) Oxygen.
Chinese Chestnuts are less finicky than Dunstans. I have grown Dunstans in the same grow box with Chinese - what works for one works for the other.
The people that like mary jane smokes (grow shop people) to me know as much about container growing as anyone. I go to a shop in Murfreesboro, TN. I am 65 years old and smoke free, alcohol free, tattoo free and no piercings. But knowledge is power and those dudes are knowledgeable growers. They like helping this square ole timer too. If you can find a shop like that - use their knowledge.
If your temps are in the low 60s - I say that has something to do with the whimpy leaves.
Wayne
I have a dripper system set up so when I water it slowly drips until I can see water dripping from the bottom of all the containers. I put a fan in there last week but it's not on a timer it's just on all the time. It's in the corner of the room just blowing enough to shake the leaves. I live out in the sticks so I won't be able to get the water tested until this weekend but I will. The seedlings are in a spare bathroom in my house we keep the house 72 73 degrees. That bathroom does stay a lil cooler but I would say 65 or better and if the sun would ever come out it would heat up more.
Would drilling holes up the sides of the container every couple inches all the way around be beneficial?
Would drilling holes up the sides of the container every couple inches all the way around be beneficial?
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
Email me a photo of the containers and seedlings to wbpdeer@att.net
Drill holes about 3/8 inch diameter in a few containers to see how it works. Don't do more than that in the case it would destroy them.
If you can solve your problem you may not have to test water. How many inches are below the bottom of the growing container?
In regard to drilling the holes - I would drill at 12 and 6 on a dial then drill the next level 3 and 9 on a dial then 12 and 6 and then 3 and 9.
I got a photo of a timer that I like and use on some of my lights or heaters.
Drill holes about 3/8 inch diameter in a few containers to see how it works. Don't do more than that in the case it would destroy them.
If you can solve your problem you may not have to test water. How many inches are below the bottom of the growing container?
In regard to drilling the holes - I would drill at 12 and 6 on a dial then drill the next level 3 and 9 on a dial then 12 and 6 and then 3 and 9.
I got a photo of a timer that I like and use on some of my lights or heaters.
Ok I will try drilling some holes in the worst looking ones tom when I get off work see what happens. As far as the question How many inches are below the bottomof the growing container? Not sure in I'm understanding correctly but I built a table they are about 4 feet off the ground
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
Is the bottom of the container sitting directly on the table or is it above the surface of the table? If it above the table, how many inches above the surface of the table.
I am believing your narrow and tall container is in a stand that holes those containers in place. Am I right or wrong.
You have a container with a small top, long cylinder that has no holes in the side and a bottom hole. Likely difficult for air to get in - roots need oxygen.
So my question is my approach to figure out how difficult or how easy the air get to the roots or don't get to the roots.
Wayne
I am believing your narrow and tall container is in a stand that holes those containers in place. Am I right or wrong.
You have a container with a small top, long cylinder that has no holes in the side and a bottom hole. Likely difficult for air to get in - roots need oxygen.
So my question is my approach to figure out how difficult or how easy the air get to the roots or don't get to the roots.
Wayne
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
Did you have a solder iron? It would be easier to burn a hole and not snatch any roots. If you drill - go as slow as possible.
If you had a sharp utility knife, you can cut slits in a vertical direction. Your roots can't get much air in the current setup. Bottom of container sitting on the board.
Your germination is good. I will respond in the mid morning. You are going to be alright with some changes. Way to leggy due to weak light source.
Wayne
If you had a sharp utility knife, you can cut slits in a vertical direction. Your roots can't get much air in the current setup. Bottom of container sitting on the board.
Your germination is good. I will respond in the mid morning. You are going to be alright with some changes. Way to leggy due to weak light source.
Wayne
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
Your containers are designed to protect the longer root development. Your container does not promote oxygen getting to the roots which is a major issue in my opinion. If you can add some ventilation holes that will help with the oxygen. Your pictures helped greatly. My labs got me up in the middle of the night so the first time I looked at them I was half awake.
Your photo were too large in size to load on this forum. Your seedlings are going to do fine but you need to address some issues.
1. I like the color of the leaves - they look healthy and the right color of green. You don't have scaffolds of leaves and your stems are too long and leggy. The light source is weak and too far way from the top of the stems - Therefore - they reach for the sun / energy. Rearrange the containers by height. Get your lights closer to chestnuts that have not germinated. Get your light closer to the seedlings that are leggy.
2. You need to feed the seedlings that are leggy. You will feed them by directly watering that container. I will show you a photo of what to buy at Walmart, Lowes or show other store. It is a water soluble fertilizer for "Acid Loving Plants". It will provide some nutrients that the new growth needs.
3. I suggest you add some Osmocote Plus - a slow release fertilizer to the leggy ones also. It don't give you an immediate dose. I would mix it in the top inch to inch and half of growing media.
4. Chestnuts can get big leaves and weak stems to the point they will not hold themself up. I was shocked at how stemmy they are.
5. How do you know the dripping system works equally across the containers? Is it possible that containers closer to the supply of water get more than they future down the distribution system. I ask because I have no experience with this approach to watering.
6. I personally like 12 to 14 hours of light and 10 to 12 hours of dark. You can't run light on those seedlings constantly. I get busy and forget therefore, I use a timer to control when lights turn on and off.
What is normal? Nature claims the weak - only the strong survive. If you have 50 germinate and grow one scaffold of leaves - some of those 50 will die off regardless of what you do. I pray they die on your while they are growing in the bathroom as opposed to after you plant them in their field location. Loss of part of the process. You are going to be plant plenty of dunstan chestnuts.
Four photos I am posting 1) Water Soluble Fertilizer, 2) Osmocote Plus and 3) Some Chestnuts that Scaffolds of Leaves When Lights Have Been Maintained at correct distance. My containers are rootmaker 18 express. 4) How seedlings look when they lights are maintained at correct distance. Two trays sunning on car hood.
Congratulations - you are going to wind up with many chestnut seedlings based upon this beginning. The devil is in the details.
In the photo of seedlings - notice the color and multiple level of leaves on a stem. The photo above is where the seedlings are older than yours currently are. The photo below shows how seedlings looking after they are ready to move from smaller containers to larger containers or field planting locations. I am introducing the seedlings to the sun on a car hood to discourage rabbits and squirrels from messing with them. My lights are adjustable height wise which is very important to prevent the seedlings from reach upward for the energy and getting top heavy.
Your photo were too large in size to load on this forum. Your seedlings are going to do fine but you need to address some issues.
1. I like the color of the leaves - they look healthy and the right color of green. You don't have scaffolds of leaves and your stems are too long and leggy. The light source is weak and too far way from the top of the stems - Therefore - they reach for the sun / energy. Rearrange the containers by height. Get your lights closer to chestnuts that have not germinated. Get your light closer to the seedlings that are leggy.
2. You need to feed the seedlings that are leggy. You will feed them by directly watering that container. I will show you a photo of what to buy at Walmart, Lowes or show other store. It is a water soluble fertilizer for "Acid Loving Plants". It will provide some nutrients that the new growth needs.
3. I suggest you add some Osmocote Plus - a slow release fertilizer to the leggy ones also. It don't give you an immediate dose. I would mix it in the top inch to inch and half of growing media.
4. Chestnuts can get big leaves and weak stems to the point they will not hold themself up. I was shocked at how stemmy they are.
5. How do you know the dripping system works equally across the containers? Is it possible that containers closer to the supply of water get more than they future down the distribution system. I ask because I have no experience with this approach to watering.
6. I personally like 12 to 14 hours of light and 10 to 12 hours of dark. You can't run light on those seedlings constantly. I get busy and forget therefore, I use a timer to control when lights turn on and off.
What is normal? Nature claims the weak - only the strong survive. If you have 50 germinate and grow one scaffold of leaves - some of those 50 will die off regardless of what you do. I pray they die on your while they are growing in the bathroom as opposed to after you plant them in their field location. Loss of part of the process. You are going to be plant plenty of dunstan chestnuts.
Four photos I am posting 1) Water Soluble Fertilizer, 2) Osmocote Plus and 3) Some Chestnuts that Scaffolds of Leaves When Lights Have Been Maintained at correct distance. My containers are rootmaker 18 express. 4) How seedlings look when they lights are maintained at correct distance. Two trays sunning on car hood.
Congratulations - you are going to wind up with many chestnut seedlings based upon this beginning. The devil is in the details.
In the photo of seedlings - notice the color and multiple level of leaves on a stem. The photo above is where the seedlings are older than yours currently are. The photo below shows how seedlings looking after they are ready to move from smaller containers to larger containers or field planting locations. I am introducing the seedlings to the sun on a car hood to discourage rabbits and squirrels from messing with them. My lights are adjustable height wise which is very important to prevent the seedlings from reach upward for the energy and getting top heavy.
Jack Terpack
Well-Known Member
Wayne,
Do you or anyone else have any information or know of any that talks about different chestnut rootstocks? I hear and see a lot of talk about grafting known varieties, but there is little I can find on the desirable rootstock. There are books written on just which apple rootstock to use for a desired purpose but nothing on chestnuts. I would imagine that various characteristics could be manipulated depending on you desired goals.
Do you or anyone else have any information or know of any that talks about different chestnut rootstocks? I hear and see a lot of talk about grafting known varieties, but there is little I can find on the desirable rootstock. There are books written on just which apple rootstock to use for a desired purpose but nothing on chestnuts. I would imagine that various characteristics could be manipulated depending on you desired goals.
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wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
Jack,
I know some people nut graft but I have avoided that stuff. The Wildlife Group in Alabama grafts for chestnut trees. I purchased a few but they are too costly for me. So I am not a resource that can help with your question.
Truth is I have trees on family property and other trees on land I can get access to. My goal is to grow seedlings and distribute chestnuts to those that wish to grow trees on their own land.
Sorry but I have nothing to share on root stock for chestnuts.
Wayne
I know some people nut graft but I have avoided that stuff. The Wildlife Group in Alabama grafts for chestnut trees. I purchased a few but they are too costly for me. So I am not a resource that can help with your question.
Truth is I have trees on family property and other trees on land I can get access to. My goal is to grow seedlings and distribute chestnuts to those that wish to grow trees on their own land.
Sorry but I have nothing to share on root stock for chestnuts.
Wayne
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
In 2019 my goal is too distribute 4,700 Chinese Chestnuts. If you want to get chinese chestnuts in the fall from me after they drop, please send me your Name, Address, Cell, Email Address in a Private Message.
That number will get me to 25,000 since I began. At that point I intend to stop distribution and will consider my mission accomplished.
I have one name entered on my list right now from a VA zipcode of 24228. This tells that person I got you down without sharing their name on a public forum. Even if you told me before, please tell me again as I am building the list now.
Thanks for reading this thread.
Wayne
That number will get me to 25,000 since I began. At that point I intend to stop distribution and will consider my mission accomplished.
I have one name entered on my list right now from a VA zipcode of 24228. This tells that person I got you down without sharing their name on a public forum. Even if you told me before, please tell me again as I am building the list now.
Thanks for reading this thread.
Wayne
Update on my seedlings they are looking better some still tall and lanky but I ordered a new lightsthat should be here by the end of the week hopefully that will help with the next batch that should be starting in the next week or so.
I put more holes in all my pots and got the slow release fertilizer in them and have watered with the orchard food once. Lights are on a 12 hr timer. I've decided to just leave the fan on always to help dry the pots out faster and ad in strengthening the stems of my rather tall lanky seedlings. They seem like they are doing good to me. Thanks again for you knowledge and help Wayne
I put more holes in all my pots and got the slow release fertilizer in them and have watered with the orchard food once. Lights are on a 12 hr timer. I've decided to just leave the fan on always to help dry the pots out faster and ad in strengthening the stems of my rather tall lanky seedlings. They seem like they are doing good to me. Thanks again for you knowledge and help Wayne
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
I would wait two weeks before I hit them again with the Orchard Fertilizer. The fan will dry out the containers closest to it in about 5 to 6 hours. I encourage you to put it on a timer and not run it 24 hours.
You can rotate your containers so the ones in the middle are placed closer to the fan. Too much air flow when they are growing can create problems we wish to avoid. Twelve hours on the lights will work out fine for you.
My pleasure to help you out. I believe the deer in your area are going to get a bunch of chestnuts in their diet in the future - & that is a very good thing.
Wayne
You can rotate your containers so the ones in the middle are placed closer to the fan. Too much air flow when they are growing can create problems we wish to avoid. Twelve hours on the lights will work out fine for you.
My pleasure to help you out. I believe the deer in your area are going to get a bunch of chestnuts in their diet in the future - & that is a very good thing.
Wayne
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
My thoughts are get the biggest bags you can fill with growing media. If you get one large enough to carry the seedlings thru the summer in a fabric bag, you can plant in the fall. That would eliminate any heat stress on a seedling planted in May during July and August.
How many seedlings do you have? Bigger bags mean you have to have the growing media to get them filled.
If you plant them in May at their final destination, I would add moisture mizer (water absorbing crystals) to the hole. It sure makes a difference during an extended dry spell during hot days.
I don't leave a bag on a seedling when I plant. I take scissors and cut them off. If you don't want to remove the bag, take a box cutter and make the bottom holy and cut plenty of long slits down the sides.
Wayne
How many seedlings do you have? Bigger bags mean you have to have the growing media to get them filled.
If you plant them in May at their final destination, I would add moisture mizer (water absorbing crystals) to the hole. It sure makes a difference during an extended dry spell during hot days.
I don't leave a bag on a seedling when I plant. I take scissors and cut them off. If you don't want to remove the bag, take a box cutter and make the bottom holy and cut plenty of long slits down the sides.
Wayne
