One Thousand Chestnut Trees - a Whitetail Deer Project
- Thread starter wbpdeer
- Start date
deer patch
Well-Known Member
What is your recommended grow media brand or type?
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
Deer Patch,
I have messed with chinese chestnuts grown in containers under lights enough to know the #1 killer IMO is too much moisture caused by water retention properties of the growing media. It can also be caused by poor container selection. We need them to dry out and then water them immediately thereafter. We need oxygen to get the roots of the chestnut.
When I can get it - I buy ProMix with HP (high porosity) in a compressed bale. I purchase that at a grow store in Murfreesboro, TN. If a person has never purchased a compressed bale - it will open your eyes as to how much growing media is in one of those.
If a person goes to a big box store and purchases growing media get potting soil that DOES NOT have any water retention properties. If you purchase that type of growing media you are 1/3 done. Purchase perlite (the white stuff). That is 2/3 of the process. Last thing to purchase is Mini-Pine Barks from Lowes. These add drainage and improve your pH. I try to use 1/3 of each - well drained potting mix, perlite and mini-pine barks.
The mini-pine barks create air pockets to add oxygen and give the roots place to fill in.
People think water retention is good for chestnuts. It is a killer. Chestnuts are high in carbohydrate are quick to mold and quick to rot.
I hope this helps.
Got two photos for your reference.
I have messed with chinese chestnuts grown in containers under lights enough to know the #1 killer IMO is too much moisture caused by water retention properties of the growing media. It can also be caused by poor container selection. We need them to dry out and then water them immediately thereafter. We need oxygen to get the roots of the chestnut.
When I can get it - I buy ProMix with HP (high porosity) in a compressed bale. I purchase that at a grow store in Murfreesboro, TN. If a person has never purchased a compressed bale - it will open your eyes as to how much growing media is in one of those.
If a person goes to a big box store and purchases growing media get potting soil that DOES NOT have any water retention properties. If you purchase that type of growing media you are 1/3 done. Purchase perlite (the white stuff). That is 2/3 of the process. Last thing to purchase is Mini-Pine Barks from Lowes. These add drainage and improve your pH. I try to use 1/3 of each - well drained potting mix, perlite and mini-pine barks.
The mini-pine barks create air pockets to add oxygen and give the roots place to fill in.
People think water retention is good for chestnuts. It is a killer. Chestnuts are high in carbohydrate are quick to mold and quick to rot.
I hope this helps.
Got two photos for your reference.
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
My favorite growing media is expensive. But it saves more chestnuts than anything I have seen. Sometimes we get what we pay for. Some times we want to hold onto the $$ for deer hunting or shed hunting with my dogs.
If you want the best - I recommend this type of expenditure.
If you want the best - I recommend this type of expenditure.
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
What Kills Our Chestnuts When We Try to Grow Them?
#1 Main Killer is Moisture! We over water them. We think Miracle Grow with Moisture Control has to work - look who is selling it. More chestnuts will rot before they break soil than a first timer would ever guess.
#2 Wrong Type of Growing Medium - We don't need soil & we don't need moisture control. Chestnuts like to get to the point of dry before they like water. Using the right growing medium helps the roots and allows us to learn what watering plan works. Roots need air for oxygen and they need space to grow.
#3 Mold Kills - We put them in airtight container with no chance to breath & we put too much moisture inside the container.
#4 Sunlight & Heat Kills - We collect chestnuts but we put them somewhere and forget about them. When a chestnut is collected - get it cleaned and inspected to see if it is a firm chestnut with no rattling in the hull. Leaving them in a hot vehicle for a week after collecting - just reduces our chances.
#5 Chestnuts Smell Good to Critters. Chipmunks, Squirrels, Rabbits, Deer, Turkeys, field mice, etc. Our chestnuts get killed because we don't protect them. If you plant a chestnut in the wild outdoors - you better protect it for a couple of years. Better to plant 5 trees well than plant 50 trees without protection.
#6 Chestnut get killed / setback by sunlight. Grown inside means we must gently push them into the sunlight. Baby steps required here. I use a pine tree that protect them from mid day and pm sun. My seedlings get early morning sun. Worked well until the squirrels made a raid.
#7 Lack of Moisture During Dog Days of Summer. Depending on your containers and location, in July and August if you go three or four days without watering seedlings that have many leaves, you can lose all of your work. Shade cloths are what nurseries use and they water twice a day.
#8 Chestnut Seedling is in Perfect Health then it gets planted in the wrong location. Sunlight is the power plant that generates the chestnut seed. We have to get pollinated by another chestnut tree that is nearby. Location of tree and proximity to other trees matter. We avoid stream sides due to risk to standing water during certain months.
#9 Negligent will kill. Every two or three days you better check on chestnuts under grow lights. In summer heat, you better water at reasonable intervals for your climate. I like to feel of the chestnut leaves with my eyes closed. What does the touch tell me? If you check ten seedlings - one of them may really need some water while the other nine show no stress.
Folks I am not an expert. I am motivated to accomplish my goal - improve my deer's habitat. It is certain I left something off the list above. I just wrote the hard lessons I have learned. If you like to cut corners - your success rate will go down. Mine did until I wised up.
The text above is from another thread I had created. If you are wanting to grow chinese chestnuts I think this info will improve your success.
Wayne
#1 Main Killer is Moisture! We over water them. We think Miracle Grow with Moisture Control has to work - look who is selling it. More chestnuts will rot before they break soil than a first timer would ever guess.
#2 Wrong Type of Growing Medium - We don't need soil & we don't need moisture control. Chestnuts like to get to the point of dry before they like water. Using the right growing medium helps the roots and allows us to learn what watering plan works. Roots need air for oxygen and they need space to grow.
#3 Mold Kills - We put them in airtight container with no chance to breath & we put too much moisture inside the container.
#4 Sunlight & Heat Kills - We collect chestnuts but we put them somewhere and forget about them. When a chestnut is collected - get it cleaned and inspected to see if it is a firm chestnut with no rattling in the hull. Leaving them in a hot vehicle for a week after collecting - just reduces our chances.
#5 Chestnuts Smell Good to Critters. Chipmunks, Squirrels, Rabbits, Deer, Turkeys, field mice, etc. Our chestnuts get killed because we don't protect them. If you plant a chestnut in the wild outdoors - you better protect it for a couple of years. Better to plant 5 trees well than plant 50 trees without protection.
#6 Chestnut get killed / setback by sunlight. Grown inside means we must gently push them into the sunlight. Baby steps required here. I use a pine tree that protect them from mid day and pm sun. My seedlings get early morning sun. Worked well until the squirrels made a raid.
#7 Lack of Moisture During Dog Days of Summer. Depending on your containers and location, in July and August if you go three or four days without watering seedlings that have many leaves, you can lose all of your work. Shade cloths are what nurseries use and they water twice a day.
#8 Chestnut Seedling is in Perfect Health then it gets planted in the wrong location. Sunlight is the power plant that generates the chestnut seed. We have to get pollinated by another chestnut tree that is nearby. Location of tree and proximity to other trees matter. We avoid stream sides due to risk to standing water during certain months.
#9 Negligent will kill. Every two or three days you better check on chestnuts under grow lights. In summer heat, you better water at reasonable intervals for your climate. I like to feel of the chestnut leaves with my eyes closed. What does the touch tell me? If you check ten seedlings - one of them may really need some water while the other nine show no stress.
Folks I am not an expert. I am motivated to accomplish my goal - improve my deer's habitat. It is certain I left something off the list above. I just wrote the hard lessons I have learned. If you like to cut corners - your success rate will go down. Mine did until I wised up.
The text above is from another thread I had created. If you are wanting to grow chinese chestnuts I think this info will improve your success.
Wayne
Chipdasqrrl
Active Member
catscratch
Well-Known Member
Just letting you know that you have Chestnut trees in KS alive and well! I know you've done a lot of work to spread these around and I hope you know your efforts have been well worth the while.
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
Your class and one class in North Carolina are my two classes. Our state has 95 counties and I have my seedlings in 72 counties. 2019 is the year I hope to get my seedlings in the remaining TN Counties.
I am going to grow in a sandbox with an automated watering system. Got a guy on here from Cheatham County TN that has done that. This will allow me to hunt shed antlers with my dogs and grow chestnuts at the same time.
Water in the am and water about 3 hours before dark. Let them dry out over night. Once the seedlings emerge, pull them from the sand bed and put them in black fabric bags. My grow boxes do greatly but require constant attention. My wife can't handle the basement steps so an automated sand box in the greenhouse is my 2019 efforts.
Not long until track season is it?
Thanks for your post.
Wayne
I am going to grow in a sandbox with an automated watering system. Got a guy on here from Cheatham County TN that has done that. This will allow me to hunt shed antlers with my dogs and grow chestnuts at the same time.
Water in the am and water about 3 hours before dark. Let them dry out over night. Once the seedlings emerge, pull them from the sand bed and put them in black fabric bags. My grow boxes do greatly but require constant attention. My wife can't handle the basement steps so an automated sand box in the greenhouse is my 2019 efforts.
Not long until track season is it?
Thanks for your post.
Wayne
catscratch
Well-Known Member
Dang wb... stepping up to automation! That's pretty cool to be honest with ya.
Yes sir, track can start in just over a month. I'm very exited about it (like always).
Yes sir, track can start in just over a month. I'm very exited about it (like always).
I am starting my fourth year growing from seed following wayne's recs listed above
i had to order Premier HP from Growers House (on line)
The most difficult aspect for me was getting "the watering thing" right and I am still trying to do so
I killed a lot of trees by overwatering. It is as much art as science(IMHO)
bill
i had to order Premier HP from Growers House (on line)
The most difficult aspect for me was getting "the watering thing" right and I am still trying to do so
I killed a lot of trees by overwatering. It is as much art as science(IMHO)
bill
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
TreeDaddy,
Are you growing in containers under lights, containers outside or direct seeding? Just trying to figure out when your watering is occurring that is killing the trees. Also, you are in Texas and the temps can be a challenge.
When I starting adding mini-pine barks to my growing media then I less of a problem due to too much moisture.
Just trying to think thru what your are dealing with.
Wayne
Are you growing in containers under lights, containers outside or direct seeding? Just trying to figure out when your watering is occurring that is killing the trees. Also, you are in Texas and the temps can be a challenge.
When I starting adding mini-pine barks to my growing media then I less of a problem due to too much moisture.
Just trying to think thru what your are dealing with.
Wayne
Containers outside.....
Last year was my best year
By comparing container with media and nut dry before soaking to container/medium/nut thoroughly soaked ,
i was able to get a handle on watering appropriately
A moisture meter also helped
Experience is the best teacher and I love the journey
i start all my chestnuts at home from seed
"I insist on being present when they are born"
Dr John Hammond Jurassic Park ~1993
bill
Last year was my best year
By comparing container with media and nut dry before soaking to container/medium/nut thoroughly soaked ,
i was able to get a handle on watering appropriately
A moisture meter also helped
Experience is the best teacher and I love the journey
i start all my chestnuts at home from seed
"I insist on being present when they are born"
Dr John Hammond Jurassic Park ~1993
bill
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
That is a great line from Jurassic Park. Well this year I am going to be chasing wild shed antlers in parts not currently known when many of mine are born.
I checked my chestnuts in the dorm fridge last night and all have moisture in the freezer bags and we are holding good. I have a remote temperature setup and the fridge has remained at 35 degrees. That will be good for the stratification process.
I agree 100% - experience is the best teacher!!!
Hey congrats on solving your moisture issues with your chestnuts.
Wayne
I checked my chestnuts in the dorm fridge last night and all have moisture in the freezer bags and we are holding good. I have a remote temperature setup and the fridge has remained at 35 degrees. That will be good for the stratification process.
I agree 100% - experience is the best teacher!!!
Hey congrats on solving your moisture issues with your chestnuts.
Wayne
THE LLC
Well-Known Member
Just my two cents. I don't start chestnuts inside or under lights any more. Seems to cause more problems than it solves. I've just been keeping them in plastic bags in the 'frig until about mid-March then putting them in a large pot outside in a media of composted pine shavings and letting nature do it's thing. Always end up with more trees than I want to plant! In the fall, I just dump the pot, separate the trees, and start planting. Will take some updated pictures of the trees from nuts I got from Wayne a couple years ago next time I'm at the farm.
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
LLC
There are different ways to get your trees established. Your method described in your post is like GraceNmercy in the Houston, Texas area. He has a huge pot in his back yard that he uses to germinate. His summer temperatures are an issue. He starts them in the outside yard and plants in the late part of the year. His farm is approx 2 hours away.
He moves his seedlings up to much larger pots than most anyone.
I am going to germinate my chestnuts in a sand box that will have an automated watering system. I have talked to my local Garden Center friend and a grow shop I deal with in Murfreesboro, TN.
I wish my grow boxes were in my greenhouse instead of my basement. I don't enough electrical supply in my greenhouse to use a grow box.
GraceNmercy starts his persimmons in the same type of pot. Me - I recently direct seeded persimmon in 11 holes at the north end of one of our best plots. I put 2 or 3 seeds per hole. I hope I have seedlings to show in the spring.
Have a great day.
Wayne
There are different ways to get your trees established. Your method described in your post is like GraceNmercy in the Houston, Texas area. He has a huge pot in his back yard that he uses to germinate. His summer temperatures are an issue. He starts them in the outside yard and plants in the late part of the year. His farm is approx 2 hours away.
He moves his seedlings up to much larger pots than most anyone.
I am going to germinate my chestnuts in a sand box that will have an automated watering system. I have talked to my local Garden Center friend and a grow shop I deal with in Murfreesboro, TN.
I wish my grow boxes were in my greenhouse instead of my basement. I don't enough electrical supply in my greenhouse to use a grow box.
GraceNmercy starts his persimmons in the same type of pot. Me - I recently direct seeded persimmon in 11 holes at the north end of one of our best plots. I put 2 or 3 seeds per hole. I hope I have seedlings to show in the spring.
Have a great day.
Wayne
Same here
Our last frost is usually mid march and first frost of winter is mid november
.......a long growing season
bill
deer patch
Well-Known Member
Wayne...Thank you for the info. It's been a long week at work so I haven't had time to reply but spring is around the corner and I will get some more free time to get things going.
First year trying to grow chestnuts. Mine are dunstan...i was hoping to get some input. The tops of the sprouts are drooping over and some of the leaves have started to turn a maroonish color.
I used promix hp grow medium (per recommendation on this forum) and watered good when I put the sprouted seeds in the pots and watered again this weekend. Water this weekend helped with the lower leaves they look better but tops still drooping over and now some leaves have started turning colors. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance Ryan.
(Trying to figure out how to upload pictures from my phone but not having any luck sorry)
I used promix hp grow medium (per recommendation on this forum) and watered good when I put the sprouted seeds in the pots and watered again this weekend. Water this weekend helped with the lower leaves they look better but tops still drooping over and now some leaves have started turning colors. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance Ryan.
(Trying to figure out how to upload pictures from my phone but not having any luck sorry)
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
OK Ryan I will be glad to help you.
1. What is growing container you are using? Is it well drained?
2. How tall are the seedlings? How many scaffolds of leaves do they have?
3. How often are you watering? What do you do to decide if they need water?
4. Are you growing under lights? If so, what type of lights? How close are the lights to the leaves?
5. Close your eyes as you grip the leaves GENTLY between your thumb and index finger. How does the leave feel? Is it whimpy and limp or is it dry and brittle?
With none of the questions above answered yet and no photo of the seedlings, I can only guess.
Most mistakes with growing chestnuts in containers under lights is watering too often. We need water that is below 7.0 on pH.
Take your index finger and stick it down in the growing media over toward the edge of the container (not next to the stem). Is the growing media damp, wet or dry? The water process for chestnuts is a roller coaster of peaks and valleys. We don't want days to go by with the seedlings dry for days but we don't water them again until they are dry. A person growing chestnuts under lights should check those seedlings every day the first three weeks after they put up top growth.
I have grown in Rootmaker 18 Express which are 18 individual containers in a tray that is laid out 6 by 3. I can move individual containers around to position them based upon size. Funny thing is those 18 can be at different levels in the wet, damp, dry process. Late bloomers can be moved to one tray (chestnuts slow to germinate).
Dunstans are more finicky than the Chinese Chestnut IMO. But the process is the same. I have asked you five number questions above to answer. The feedback you give me will help us solve the problem.
If they are too damp, a gentle flow of air helps dry them out sooner. Trouble is the seedlings located closer to the fan dry out fastest. So I use a timer purchased at Walmart & Lowes to control when the fan is on. My timers are 30 minute interval decisions. You can re position the fan to each of the four sides of your growing formation.
6. How many seedlings are you trying to grow? In other words, how many went into the growing media?
Congrats on your effort to growing your own trees. It is fun, cheaper and rewarding. The second year you grow some you will be so much more successful - at least that is how it worked for me and others. Sure it will be for you.
Waiting for your replies.
Wayne
1. What is growing container you are using? Is it well drained?
2. How tall are the seedlings? How many scaffolds of leaves do they have?
3. How often are you watering? What do you do to decide if they need water?
4. Are you growing under lights? If so, what type of lights? How close are the lights to the leaves?
5. Close your eyes as you grip the leaves GENTLY between your thumb and index finger. How does the leave feel? Is it whimpy and limp or is it dry and brittle?
With none of the questions above answered yet and no photo of the seedlings, I can only guess.
Most mistakes with growing chestnuts in containers under lights is watering too often. We need water that is below 7.0 on pH.
Take your index finger and stick it down in the growing media over toward the edge of the container (not next to the stem). Is the growing media damp, wet or dry? The water process for chestnuts is a roller coaster of peaks and valleys. We don't want days to go by with the seedlings dry for days but we don't water them again until they are dry. A person growing chestnuts under lights should check those seedlings every day the first three weeks after they put up top growth.
I have grown in Rootmaker 18 Express which are 18 individual containers in a tray that is laid out 6 by 3. I can move individual containers around to position them based upon size. Funny thing is those 18 can be at different levels in the wet, damp, dry process. Late bloomers can be moved to one tray (chestnuts slow to germinate).
Dunstans are more finicky than the Chinese Chestnut IMO. But the process is the same. I have asked you five number questions above to answer. The feedback you give me will help us solve the problem.
If they are too damp, a gentle flow of air helps dry them out sooner. Trouble is the seedlings located closer to the fan dry out fastest. So I use a timer purchased at Walmart & Lowes to control when the fan is on. My timers are 30 minute interval decisions. You can re position the fan to each of the four sides of your growing formation.
6. How many seedlings are you trying to grow? In other words, how many went into the growing media?
Congrats on your effort to growing your own trees. It is fun, cheaper and rewarding. The second year you grow some you will be so much more successful - at least that is how it worked for me and others. Sure it will be for you.
Waiting for your replies.
Wayne
