Late summer spraying of Broadleafs in Clover/Chicory plots

Discussion in 'Food Plots for Wildlife' started by Dr. Wally, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. Dr. Wally

    Dr. Wally New Member

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    Glad I found this forum, reminds me of the old QDMA forum before its demise. OK I have raptor and am wondering if I should just mow and wait till spring to spray my plots, don't want to waste the expensive chemical. I tried it in the past and wasn't too impressed in late summer after the broadleaf mature. Thank you in advance for any pointers...
     
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  2. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Imox (Raptor) is actually not as expensive as it seems, since the dosage rate per acre is only 4 oz. At $300 a gallon that's only $10 an acre. I'd advise to mow and spray right away, then do it again in late spring. Imox works slowly but because of the residual effect in the soil it's killing a lot more weeds than most people realize, even a month after they apply it. Fall often has a different set of problem weeds than the early summer, so alternating application times will be more effective in giving a broader spectrum of coverage.
    P.S. I personally prefer Thunder herbicide over Imox and 2,4-DB, excellent results for most broadleaf and grass weeds in clover at a cheaper price.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  3. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forum, and you are even about the same age as I am.
     
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  4. Dr. Wally

    Dr. Wally New Member

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    cool, Yes I was frequently on the old qdma forum, learned a lot , been doing qdma, habitat management for last 15yrs..Still learning and tweaking. Of note, I am using the cheaper Clearcast in lieu of Raptor.. Don't know much about "thunder" many folks using it ? may have to use it
     
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  5. howboutthemdawgs

    howboutthemdawgs Member

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    Not to hijack...will thunder kill smartweed? I sprayed 2 plots earlier this year with imox and the smartweed is thick as thieves still.
     
  6. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    Imazethapyr is Thunder or Pursuit, and Imazamox is Imox, Raptor or Clearcast, these two are in the same chemical family, and work about the same way. The reasons I lean towards Thunder is it's a little cheaper and actually kills a few more broadleaf weeds, 120 for Thunder vs. 113 for Imox, but Thunder kills a few less grasses. Raptor has a shorter soil life approximately half of Pursuit, both herbicides enter the soil and can last for months. Raptor is attractive for being able to plant brassica type plots sooner. But I don't know why someone would apply these expensive herbicides at all if they're planning to transition to another crop outside of clover, alfalfa, or chicory.
    Imox is labeled for smartweed, you might have had a failed application? I'm not a big fan of Butyrac 200 Herbicide (24DB Herbicide), but it does kill some weeds very well that other things don't, it is cheap and is labelled for smartweed (knotweed) maybe hit it with a heavier dose of Butyrac 200, also for non herbicide control, frequent mowing helps remove the tops of smartweed before it can go into seed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  7. howboutthemdawgs

    howboutthemdawgs Member

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    I think you may be right about the failed application. I actually commented at the time that about an hour or less after I sprayed a big pop up thunderstorm came and dumped at least an inch of rain or more. I was hesitant to spray again because a) I didn’t know how long it took to work and b) it says only one application a year.
     
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  8. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Hardiness Zone:
    6a
    113 Species controlled by Imox:
    • Alligatorweed
    • American lotus
    • American pondweed
    • Annual ryegrass
    • Arrowhead
    • Artichoke, Jerusalem
    • Bedstraw
    • Beet, wild
    • Bladderwort
    • Brazilian pepper
    • Buckwheat, wild
    • Bulrush
    • Buttercup
    • California bulrush
    • Camphor tree
    • Canola, volunteer (non-Clearfield®)
    • Cattail
    • Chickweed, common
    • Chinese tallowtree
    • Christmasberry
    • Cocklebur, common
    • Common reed
    • Common salvinia
    • Coontail
    • Curly leaf pondweed
    • Eelgrass, Japanese
    • Egeria
    • Eurasian watermilfoil
    • Filaree, redstem
    • Filaree, whitestem
    • Flixweed
    • Floating heart
    • Floating pennywort
    • Flowering rush
    • Four-leaf clover
    • Frog’s bit
    • Giant cane
    • Giant ragweed
    • Henbit
    • Hoary cress
    • Hydrilla
    • Illinois pondweed
    • Jamaican nightshade
    • Japanese knotweed
    • Japanese stiltgrass
    • Jimsonweed
    • Johnsongrass, rhizome
    • Johnsongrass, seedling
    • Knotweed, prostrate
    • Kochia
    • Lambsquarters, common
    • Lettuce, miner’s
    • Mallow, Venice
    • Mallow, common
    • Mexican lily
    • Mosquito fern
    • Mustard spp.
    • Nettle, burning
    • Nettleleaf goosefoot
    • Nightshade, Eastern black
    • Nightshade, black
    • Nightshade, hairy
    • Old world climbing fern
    • Parrotfeather
    • Pennycress, field
    • Phragmites
    • Pickerelweed
    • Pigweed, prostrate
    • Pigweed, redroot
    • Pigweed, smooth
    • Pigweed, spiny
    • Popcorn tree
    • Puncturevine
    • Purple loosestrife
    • Purslane, common
    • Radish, wild
    • Ragweed, common
    • Ragweed, giant
    • Rocket, London
    • Rocket, yellow
    • Sago pondweed
    • Saltcedar
    • Salvinia
    • Sedge, purple
    • Sedge, yellow
    • Shepherd's-purse
    • Smartweed, Pennsylvania
    • Smartweed, ladysthumb
    • Smartweed, swamp
    • Southern naiad
    • Spatterdock
    • Spikerush
    • Spurge, prostrate
    • Sunflower, common
    • Swinecress
    • Tansymustard, green
    • Taro
    • Thistle, Russian
    • Tropical soda apple
    • Variable-leaf milfoil
    • Velvetleaf
    • Water chestnut
    • Water hyacinth
    • Water lettuce
    • Water lily
    • Water primrose
    • Water stargrass
    • Watershield
    • Wetland nightshade
    • Whitetop
    • Wigeon grass
    • Wild taro
    • Willoweed panicle
    • 120 Species controlled by Thunder Herbicide:
      • Alligator weed
      • Anoda, spurred
      • Artichoke, Jerusalem
      • Barnyardgrass
      • Bedstraw, catchweed
      • Beets, wild
      • Bluegrass, annual
      • Bristly starbur
      • Buckwheat, wild
      • Buffalobur
      • Canarygrass, littleseed
      • Carpetweed
      • Chickweed, mouseear
      • Cocklebur, common
      • Common ragweed,
      • Crabgrass, Large
      • Crabgrass, Smooth
      • Cress, hoary
      • Crowfootgrass
      • Cupgrass, robust purple
      • Cupgrass, robust white
      • Cupgrass, woolly
      • Dandelion
      • Devilsclaw
      • Dock, broadleaf (seedling)
      • Dock, curly (seedling)
      • Dodder
      • Fiddleneck
      • Filaree, redstem
      • Filaree, whitestem
      • Fleabane, rough
      • Flixweed
      • Foxtail, Giant
      • Foxtail, Green
      • Foxtail, Yellow
      • Galinsoga
      • Giant ragweed
      • Goosefoot, nettleleaf
      • Goosegrass
      • Grounsel, common
      • Henbit
      • Jimsonweed
      • Johnsongrass, Rhizome and Seedling
      • Junglerice
      • Knotweed, prostrate
      • Kochia (non-ALS resistant)
      • Lambsquarter, common
      • Lettuce, miners
      • Mallow, Venice
      • Mallow, little
      • Marshelder
      • Millet, wild proso
      • Morningglory, entireleaf
      • Morningglory, ivyleaf
      • Morningglory, pitted
      • Morningglory, smallflower
      • Morningglory, tall
      • Mustard sp
      • Mustard, wild
      • Mustards, tumble
      • Nettle, burning
      • Nightshade Eastern black
      • Nightshade hairy
      • Nightshade, black
      • Nutsedge, purple
      • Nutsedge, yellow
      • Oats, wild
      • Oxtongue, bristly
      • Panicum, Fall
      • Panicum, Texas
      • Pennycress, field
      • Pepperweed, Virginia
      • Pepperweed, field
      • Pigweed, redroot
      • Pigweed, smooth
      • Pigweed, spiny
      • Poinsettia, wild
      • Puncturevine
      • Purslane, common
      • Pusley, Florida
      • Quackgrass
      • Radish, wild
      • Ragweed, common
      • Red rice
      • Rocket, London
      • Rocket, Yellow
      • Rockpurslane, desert
      • Sage, barnyard
      • Sandbur, field
      • Shattercane
      • Shepherd's purse
      • Sida, prickly (teaweed)
      • Signalgrass, broadleaf
      • Smartweed swamp (seedling)
      • Smartweed, Pennsylvania
      • Smartweed, ladysthumb
      • Sorghum, almum
      • Sprangletop, Red
      • Spurge, petty
      • Spurge, prostrate
      • Spurge, spotted
      • Spurge, toothed
      • Spurry, corn
      • Swinecress
      • Tansy mustard, pinnate
      • Thistle, Canada
      • Thistle, Russian
      • Velvetleaf
      • Volunteer Corn
      • Volunteer barley
      • Volunteer oats
      • Volunteer wheat
      • Wartcress, creeping
      • Watercress
      • Waterhemp, common
      • Waterhemp, tall
      • Wild Proso Millet
      • Wild oats
      • Willow weed, panicle
      • Witchgrass
     
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  9. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    That's why I suggested Butyrac 200, you don't need to worry about using too much Imox in 1 year.
     
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  10. dogghr

    dogghr Well-Known Member

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    I swear you are the encyclopedia of herbicides, Mennoniteman. Always read with interest. My Imox spraying did kill most smart weed. Also did quite well on sedges. And I really like how it aggravated thistle, tho in the one plot didn't make it go away completely. And I know it will return most likely. First time spraying perennial plots in a while, not much a chemical person.
    I still contest proper rotation and proper ph does much to control nuisance grasses and weeds. My lime may get down now that monsoons have gone to drought status. Thanks for always sharing and I've got copies of your lists. Somewhere.
     
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  11. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    Be careful in following my food plot recommendations, I know just enough to be dangerous.
    And "rotation" sounds like unnecessary work? As a ladino clover grower would say "what is this rotation you speak of?
    As for PH levels; adding lime to my plots is like dragging a $20 bill through a trailer park, it makes my weeds smile just as much as my clover.

    As for spraying plots, I'm with you on not spraying more than necessary, however, I find that spraying more is actually less, if you can swallow that mouthful.
    To explain; if I have a clean clover plot I need only hit it with a light dose of Thunder once early in the summer to maintain the clean plot "for perpetuity". Once I ignore the plot until it's well saturated with weeds (and a "yuge" seed bank) it seems like I'm behind the eight ball for years, applying several heavy doses of chemicals plus extra mowings and even some hand spot spraying to try rescue it, or go the long route with tillage and reseeding the entire field.
    Anymore I have so many nice ladino clover fields that my deer almost have clover coming out of their ears for I find that growing nice clover is very easy once you have a few parameters memorized. #1 Ladino clover starts slow. And #2, it doesn't compete well with weeds. Other than those two issues clover grows like a weed itself, isn't prone to disease, isn't fussy about nutrients, reseeds itself, grows faster than deer can eat it, and is a high quality perennial plant that is high on the deer preference list, and at 25-30% protein and 70% digestibility it's also a great antler builder and milk producer. IMO there's no easier, cheaper, more nutritious, longerlasting deer plot than Ladino clover.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  12. dogghr

    dogghr Well-Known Member

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    Well as you know
    Most of my plots are perennial white clovers, some with alfalfa, and/or chicory mixed in. I do disagree with ph thinking tho. And by rotation, Im not speaking of your needs, but those that wrestle with unwanted weeds and grasses overtaking their plots. A few years rotation of the LC variety cures most of that problem.
    Now where you and I have diff philosophies, is the allowance of weeds and grasses into a plot. I find no worries of either of those and with mowing and spraying every few years, overseeding with WR each fall, keeping Fert yearly with no N, phs at 6.5 or better, and I accept grasses and most weeds with a clear conscience. I just don't see either overtaking a managed perennial typically in my case. These days quite honestly I hate a monoculture clover mixture which I once strived to achieve. Ones acceptance is sometimes challenged when you observe them, but a mixture of all the above give the deer plenty of food, with less time, money, and sweat.
    I miss a couple of guys who used to post much of that type management with better explanations than I can give, with great success. That is why I still post boring pics of clover on my land thread, to show we can Coexist, speaking of plants of Course.
     
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  13. Dr. Wally

    Dr. Wally New Member

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    Wow, 24 hrs and tons of good info .....thank you all....sooooo late summer spraying of clover /chicory plots is efficacious . But better to spray early for prevention i guess. Spring fishing keeps me playing catchup. I have several awesome looking and some just good looking clover/chic plots that I should have sprayed this spring... so looking for some way to minimize swedbank contribution ... I sprayed one plot with raptor today... and the rest will use cleth for grass problems... can I save this post for future reference.
     
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  14. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    I really think that we have about the same philosophy on food plots, we just differ on when we deal with weeds in our clover. I find that maintaining a Monoculture clover plot is easier for me, and you find that maintaining a Polyculture clover is easier for you.
    The one smart thing that you do is overseeding WR, rye is like applying a grass herbicide right there, but again, it's something that doesn't work well for me; my ladino clover in my monoculture plots is too thick to overseed WR, it doesn't establish well in the tight clover thatch.
    I know that rotation is a good practice for weed control, but again, I find that it's more work than a timely herbicide application once a year, but I actually have some plots that I do manage in your style just for the fun of it, starting clover and letting it go with no spray until it needs tillage. Discing a weedy clover field seems to work well to suppress weeds without herbicide and the clover pops right back.
    I do think that reading about our two different ways of approaching weeds in clover is a great contrast for beginners who are just starting to learn how to manage clover and are experimenting with what works best for their style of plotting.
     
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  15. sagittarius

    sagittarius Member

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    If your weeds are less than 3", spray; if not, mow and wait until spring.

    The weeds need to be young and 3" or less to get a good kill. Spray rate is only 4 oz/acre for the chicory, and up to 6 oz/acre for alfalfa/clover. Keep in mind future plot rotation intervals. Following a Raptor spraying, no corn planting for 8.5 months, and no planting root crops (turnips, brassicas) for 18 months. ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2019

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