Late Bearing Chestnut

[TreeFan]

Greetings, New member, long time browser of the old QDMA site. Growing trees for wildlife for 40 years with acreage in northern Michigan. I have acquired trees from various sources like state agricultural departments, nurseries, the grocery store, and local trees that are growing in my area.
Eight years ago I was shopping at a high end grocery store and they had what was billed as "Italian" Chestnuts where I bought 10 or so for stratification and growing. Several rooted and were planted on the border of zone 4 and 5. One tree has produced chestnuts 2 different years. Both times the nuts matured after November 1st. This year there were 15 matured nuts that would drop between November 1st to the 15th. The nearest flowering chestnut trees I know of are a mile and a half away, so I am not sure how they were pollinated. I like the trees because they grow fast, the trunk and branches are fat and chunky. The buds are about twice the size of a American / Chinese cultivar. This particular tree has a trunk about 8 inches in diameter at the base and 14 feet high.
Just thought there may be some interest as far as a late bearing chestnut variety.
My issue is that the tree bears too late here and the temp has gone down to 15 degrees before they drop. I am hoping to pollinate with an earlier bearing tree to produce a hybrid. Also, one year, the spring frost killed all the buds as they were sprouting. The trees re-sprouted like an oak. My thought is that they came from a warmer climate.

 

[DrDirtNap]

Greetings, New member, long time browser of the old QDMA site. Growing trees for wildlife for 40 years with acreage in northern Michigan. I have acquired trees from various sources like state agricultural departments, nurseries, the grocery store, and local trees that are growing in my area.
Eight years ago I was shopping at a high end grocery store and they had what was billed as "Italian" Chestnuts where I bought 10 or so for stratification and growing. Several rooted and were planted on the border of zone 4 and 5. One tree has produced chestnuts 2 different years. Both times the nuts matured after November 1st. This year there were 15 matured nuts that would drop between November 1st to the 15th. The nearest flowering chestnut trees I know of are a mile and a half away, so I am not sure how they were pollinated. I like the trees because they grow fast, the trunk and branches are fat and chunky. The buds are about twice the size of a American / Chinese cultivar. This particular tree has a trunk about 8 inches in diameter at the base and 14 feet high.
Just thought there may be some interest as far as a late bearing chestnut variety.
My issue is that the tree bears too late here and the temp has gone down to 15 degrees before they drop. I am hoping to pollinate with an earlier bearing tree to produce a hybrid. Also, one year, the spring frost killed all the buds as they were sprouting. The trees re-sprouted like an oak. My thought is that they came from a warmer climate.

TreeFan, welcome to the forum...interesting post. I'm in North MS. If you send me a few of those nuts I'll try them out for you in the South. I've got several Chinese and Chinese/American trees now that all seem to drop in the September time frame for me.

 

[TreeFan]

I think I may be able to do this for you DrDirtNap. Probably just 2 nuts as I only have 8 that I have in stratification. I harvested this bounty twice, my property is 3.5 hours away.
In order to keep from animals eating them, harvest was
11/1 - 10 nuts, a couple were a little imature, ate a couple and stratification for the remaining 8 I have a picture, but I am new to forums and am not sure how to post that yet.
11/15 - 5 nuts went through 15 degree weather and they are not remaining firm. Deer ate whatever dropped between those 2 dates. I just opened and ate one of them, a bit soft but tasty none the less. Not rotting, but I would not rely on them to germinate.
Can you send a PM?
FWIW - perusing chestnut nurseries, I did find one that had Italian chestnuts a couple weeks ago. I do not recall the name of it.

 

[Brushpile]

European Chestnuts are subject to blight, after eight years are all of your trees healthy?

 

[TreeFan]

Brushpile, thanks, I did not know that!!
I have 5 trees of this variety ranging from 5 to 8 years old. All appear healthy and none have blight. This particular tree has a 2 year old buck rub on it resulting in a 2 inch wide gap in the trunk, subjecting it to blight, but there is none. Bark is slowly surrounding the area and the gap now exposes 1 inch of core wood. There is a small area of mushroom type fungus further up the tree. I have had blight in the past on one tree that was an American/Chinese hybrid, so, although my knowledge is limited, I have experienced it.
If a tree looks like a buck might use it for a rub, I use a tree tube, cut in half vertically and wrap it around the tree for the winter. You know the "look", straight trunk, no lower branches, 1 to 3 inch diameter...
Hoping to have a second tree of this variety bear nuts next year.
The growing season in northern Michigan was very good this year with regular rains during the summer.
Again, thanks for the information. The opportunity to learn on this site is invaluable.

 

[Jason Broom]

I've got a dozen Chinese chestnut trees growing in Antrim county, but they won't likely produce nuts for another 3 or 4 years. I'm curious why you would want nuts to drop earlier? Most guys want the exact opposite.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[TreeFan]

Certainly, here in northern Michigan, by November 15, the snow is flying and the temps go sub freezing. My concern is that the tree can go dormant before the nuts are mature and the nuts freeze on the tree during the night time temps. It was 15 degrees several days before I harvested. I am relatively new to this, so this is the only year that I have experience with the results. This year, the nuts that had frozen did not remain firm after they were harvested. I pulled the burs off the tree with a rake. I did open one of them and it was not rotten, the color was white and it was as if it had dried out for a period of time. I stored it in the refrigerator from day 1 and this was 10 days later. I ate it and it was good, but it had shrunk inside the shell. I would think that this happens in nature, but after the ripe nut falls to the ground. I am not too concerned, it should make for good hunting, but these results indicate that this variety is right on the borderline for it's growing zone.

 

[Brushpile]

Red Fern Farm in Iowa used to have chestnuts for Northern climates. It might be well worth it to contact them. Also note that this grower says Japanese and European Chestnuts are not suited for the Iowa climate.

 

[TreeFan]

Interesting.. This question came to mind regarding chestnut blight and European chestnuts -
If American chestnuts were wiped out, why did the European chestnut survive and what are they doing about it?
I did a little searching and the indication is that the European chestnut developed a transmissible hypovirulence to the condition and survived.
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.py.32.090194.003053?journalCode=phyto

 

[Brushpile]

Interesting.. This question came to mind regarding chestnut blight and European chestnuts -
If American chestnuts were wiped out, why did the European chestnut survive and what are they doing about it?
I did a little searching and the indication is that the European chestnut developed a transmissible hypovirulence to the condition and survived.
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.py.32.090194.003053?journalCode=phyto

European Chestnut survived in Europe and areas where there is no blight.

 

[Brushpile]

Europe doesn't have blight and neither does Japan. The West Coast is also free from blight, so nurseries like Burnt Ridge sell European and Japanese Chestnuts to West Coast growers.
http://www.burntridgenursery.com/Chestnut-Trees/products/53/

European Chestnut and Japanese seedlings that can be grown West of the Rocky Mountains, but will eventually die if planted East of the Rocky Mountains. I talked to one grower who lost $5000 in European Chestnuts that were planted to form a commercial orchard in the East..

 

[TreeFan]

I'll keep an eye on my trees and align my expectations accordingly going forward. Any sign of blight and I will provide an update. Diversity is part of the plan and I have Chinese and American/Chinese as well. It's a long term plan that requires patience and I would be disappointed to lose any after all the work and attention. I would not want to steer anybody in the wrong direction either.
Thanks again for the insight and additional information.

 

[Jason Broom]

I've got both Chinese and Dwarf Korean chestnuts growing in 3 locations in Antrim County, MI. These are zones 5 and 4a, with the DKC's being in 4a. I'm hoping they can tolerate the deep snows and bitter cold of that location long enough to become well-established. Despite the risk from varmints, I plan to keep those mulched, because the biggest risk is a severe cold snap w/o an insulating layer of snow to protect those young trees. Once a decent snowpack is in place, I don't worry about them so much. I suspect those trees will be late bearing, if only because of how late in the year they "wake up" from the cold.

 

[TreeFan]

Time will tell. I have 4 varieties in Alpena area, American/Chinese, Chinese, Italian, and some from a neighbor across the street has 2 - 30 year old chestnuts, that I suspect are a Chinese variant. None have perished due to climate, but the Italian sprouted early and got frost burnt once. It sprouts early and bears late. The American/Chinese sprout late and bear early. They all flower at the same time though.

DrDirtNap, 2 Italian chestnuts have been sent and should arrive Thursday.

 

[Chipdasqrrl]

How are these trees doing now?


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[TreeFan]

Seasons Greetings. All 5 late bearing Italian chestnut are doing well with no blight. 2 of them had some winter die back. The largest, and only tree that produces, at year 9 has about a 9-10 inch diameter trunk, produced about 20 burs with 40% pollination. The growing season was poor with a 6 to 8 week drought starting in June through July. Once again, in freezing temps, I harvested 8 or so burs that were just beginning to open up, on October 31. Brought them to my cabin to let them dry before opening the burs. My buddy had shot a deer with his crossbow the prior evening and we went to look for it. 3 hours later, I returned to find empty chestnut burs and shells strewn about the cabin!!! A chipmunk had devoured them all ... The cabin is, shall we say, rustic.. a little too rustic I guess, and the chipmunks pulled the tricks and got the treats on me this Halloween. Meantime, I planted 6 nuts from 2017 and have 4 more trees growing in rootmaker bags. Hoping that 2019 provides a better growing season as I will have more pollinators. This fall, I had a timber harvest done on the property and there will be much more sun for the trees next year.

 

[Jason Broom]

I always chuckle at the way wildlife will eat the nuts or the trees we're trying to grow, not knowing that if they would just be patient, we'd be able to provide a whole lot more for them! I guess deferred gratification is not one of the virtues of critters.

I'm glad to hear your trees continue to grow reasonably well. The drought this year didn't help our cause much, but I was able to verify that all of the ~20 chestnut trees I have in Antrim County had leaves on them that still haven't dropped, so I know they've made it through another growing season. I'm really hopeful that all of the trees that have survived, so far, are going to make it to maturity, one day.