How long does nitrogen last after legumes are gone?

[David]

Planted beans and peas this summer. It was grazed to nothing by late august. I followed with oats.

I never added nitrogen.

So how long does nitrogen from the legumes last to supply the oats?

They are serving more as a cover crop than a food plot.

Thanks


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[Smallplot]

If the beans and peas were foraged hard it is likely the n storage was very small or nothing. Either way oats would use up any released n very quickly. How long it would be available will depend on how active your soil is, how fast your soil leaches N, and how much Carbon is being transformed in the decay process pertaining to vegetation left.

Next it depends on if your plants had enough available N, and if not, if any extra was able to be taken from the atmosphere. Next if there was any storage onto Nodules on the root system.

When looking at what is available N to the next crop, beans can have anywhere from 20 to 60 pounds per acre in N Credits and in this case I would expect the lower end to possibly be the high side of actual. Some will be quicker released and some has to undergo chemical change to reach a formation the plants can actually use. There will be some N credits in just the plant material (including roots) even if the nodules do not form. So without knowing your soil biology and the actual N level from plant tests, anything is nearly a guess. I think it would be pretty safe to assume not to count on any N credits for the next crop and say you likely should have applied more N with your oat crop.


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[bigbluetruck]

I may be wrong, but there may be more N than you think. IIRC beans and peas produce the nodules, but then they use that N produced to make seed. Ive heard Cowpeas are better than beans about leaving some N after making seed. But anyway, if they didn't create much seed because they were kept trimmed down, there "should" be some N left from the nodules.

Now if I were to guess, there should've been enough to supply your oats, but I wouldn't bet on any left over for the next crop. You will get some from the breakdown of the dead oats but that wont be available until later. How much and when, I have no idea

 

[David]

A thousand thanks!

I appreciate your time to respond.

-David

 

[dogghr]

Keep in mind nutrients may be existing within the soil but their uptake is related to health of the soil and its microbial make up making those nutrients available to the plant. My soils tend to be poor compared to some. The ph and soil tests show very high in all categories in part because they have seen the LC rotation for 8 years which contributes to soil health. But since mine are less than prime soil , I still can get better growth with plantings by adding Fert which is available for immediate uptake by the plant. Now growth is always good but it is better if I add amendments with planting. Sometimes I do, sometimes not, depending on my mood and willingness to spend money and sweat. Hope that all makes sense, others can be more specific on soil actions.

 

[David]

Keep in mind nutrients may be existing within the soil but their uptake is related to health of the soil and its microbial make up making those nutrients available to the plant. My soils tend to be poor compared to some. The ph and soil tests show very high in all categories in part because they have seen the LC rotation for 8 years which contributes to soil health. But since mine are less than prime soil , I still can get better growth with plantings by adding Fert which is available for immediate uptake by the plant. Now growth is always good but it is better if I add amendments with planting. Sometimes I do, sometimes not, depending on my mood and willingness to spend money and sweat. Hope that all makes sense, others can be more specific on soil actions.

Thanks fellas. The oats are serving as a cover crop. Doing my best to learn about soil science, so step one was to cover it for the winter.

The oats are being heavily browsed. Their color is a beautiful deep blue green. So it seems as though they are not lacking nitrogen.

Just trying to plan ahead for the future rotations.

I plan on continuing a legume in the plot for the summer and grains for the winter. My hope is to have the summer crop go till first frost. I guess I'm hoping to attempt to forgo the need to fertilize my cover crop.

Which brings up another question: if my summer plots do make it to first frost.....will grains grow that late in the year? Should I wait till late winter and frost seed? Then the grains only have at most 90 days till I put the summer mix in the ground.

I have alot to learn.





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[Smallplot]

The best option would be to over seed your grains as soon as the canopy begins to open up as the legume reaches maturity. You indicate your going with a legume so I am assuming your sticking with the beans/peas. This would be when the leaves begin to turn yellow and just prior to when they fall. The leaves will help germination but don’t forget this needs done at a time right before a good soaking rain.

I am not sure about your dates in SC so I can’t give any date ranges. For maximum benefit from the cereals you need to have them in early enough to get a good root system established before it cools to point where plants just don’t grow well. I like to have 60 days in my area before first frost which means I need them planted by the first of September and if we have good weather through November that is just a plus. It’s not all about what you see growing with a cover crop.

Also consider adding some radish to your cereal mix as they really suck up the nutrients and keep them in the upper part of your soil profile for the next crop.

We all learn, sometimes daily. Enjoy your time with nature and growing crops for the wildlife. It can become addicting.


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[David]

The best option would be to over seed your grains as soon as the canopy begins to open up as the legume reaches maturity. You indicate your going with a legume so I am assuming your sticking with the beans/peas. This would be when the leaves begin to turn yellow and just prior to when they fall. The leaves will help germination but don’t forget this needs done at a time right before a good soaking rain.

I am not sure about your dates in SC so I can’t give any date ranges. For maximum benefit from the cereals you need to have them in early enough to get a good root system established before it cools to point where plants just don’t grow well. I like to have 60 days in my area before first frost which means I need them planted by the first of September and if we have good weather through November that is just a plus. It’s not all about what you see growing with a cover crop.

Also consider adding some radish to your cereal mix as they really suck up the nutrients and keep them in the upper part of your soil profile for the next crop.

We all learn, sometimes daily. Enjoy your time with nature and growing crops for the wildlife. It can become addicting.


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Small plot,

It is quite addicting. I'm going down Friday to take soil samples and after that I'm gonna attempt to fish. I'm a fly guy so it's gonna be nymphing tomorrow. The only reason I mention this is to say we all need (especially me) to count our blessings and be thankful for our opportunities to hunt, harvest, grow, view and interact with creation.....there is.more to the woods than whitetail.

Back to the cover crops....

My dad's side of the family is from ohio, nothing but beans and corn. A few of the farmers are starting to experiment with cover crops. I know they can plant them in all sorts of ways including air planes from what I have read.

Do the northern farmers (real agricultural farmers) over seed into standing crops?

Are they running combines over young nurse crops?

 

[Smallplot]

Most young plants will rebound well following any traffic. There may be small areas of damage but it is usually an acceptable loss. A few years ago we had a very wet fall and there were several acres flown on. Saw the planes loading for three days at the airport with constant in/out during daylight.

Most in my area are drilled following harvest but crops are going in earlier and coming out earlier than when I was a kid. Not sure the cost of having them flown on but it would be the best option as the cover crops would get a big jumpstart. I have seen a couple combines outfitted with seeders as well so they are seeding at the same time of harvest.

One of the intriguing methods I read about was planting the cover crop about the time the canopy closed. That way the plants could begin growing some in the shade of the canopy and already have a foothold as soon at the canopy opened up. This was mostly some clovers.

Love to fly fish but I have to drive several hours to do that. Good luck in landing a few and with your food plots.

Not sure about on this site but on the old site there were several threads where people would drive thru spinning on there cover crop, aka fall plantings, with some success. I have done this in soybeans before and ended up with some extra grub. My problem at the time was the height of my soys were taller than I could get the spinner. So it can be a viable option.

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