Have you ever wondered?
- Thread starter Baker
- Start date
Seasons vary a little from state to state but roughly run from Thanksgiving till the end of January. A unique management approach in Mexico is each UMA or management unit [ my ranch for example ] submits a survey and then is given a quota of animals that can be harvested based on population. They don't care if one person harvest the entire quota or its done individually. Its simply based on the biological availability of the unit. There is latitude with seasons as well much like the programs in Tx.
I generally spend most of the winter at the ranch starting in late Nov. thru the end of Feb. I have a home there and with modern communications can keep up with things easily.All a privilege of being an empty nester. I go back and forth as necessary as my kids still want Christmas in La.
I used to dove hunt the San Fernando valley annually as well. Tragic what happened down there. Still from about Laredo south I prefer not to visit. However my neighborhood has never suffered any of the issues that plague Mexico and quite contrary has a strong American presence. The dove hunting is fantastic and should you ever want to venture back down I'd be delighted to connect you with quality outfitters.
I generally spend most of the winter at the ranch starting in late Nov. thru the end of Feb. I have a home there and with modern communications can keep up with things easily.All a privilege of being an empty nester. I go back and forth as necessary as my kids still want Christmas in La.
I used to dove hunt the San Fernando valley annually as well. Tragic what happened down there. Still from about Laredo south I prefer not to visit. However my neighborhood has never suffered any of the issues that plague Mexico and quite contrary has a strong American presence. The dove hunting is fantastic and should you ever want to venture back down I'd be delighted to connect you with quality outfitters.
Triple C
Well-Known Member
Last time we went down was either 2008 or 2009. Pretty scary stuff with the drug cartel. Feel for the outfitters that invested huge sums of money on lodges and land leases in that area. The dove/qual/duck hunting was off the charts down there.
Those are some fantastic bucks! I understand your place down in Mexico is all low/no fence? I often wonder why no world records have come from Texas or Mexico?
We have both hi fence and low fence pastures. World records are pretty rare. However numerous B&C bucks are taken every year. We've never recorded any of them from our ranch though we take them routinely.
Most of the ranches in our neighborhood are hi fenced. My neighbor to the south has 50,000 acres fenced. Thats kind of typical as the smallest ranch in the neighborhood is 8000 acres.
Not only meaningful to me but also to P&Y and B & C as it should be...
Great deer btw...
The areas fenced explains why no free range world records come from that area...I was mistakenin thinking you guys were hunting all free range deer down there. Are these big deer in this thread you are posting in the high fence area?
No I don't think game fences explain why no world record has come from south of the border. I assume you mean something bigger than the Milo Hansen buck? No world record has come from there hi fence or low fence that I know of...or anywhere else...because it is enormously rare. While 2 of the ranches joining me are hi fenced [ about 65,000 acres ] and we have 2 pasture hi fenced [ a little less than 1/3rd of our property ] there are millions of acres not fenced in the state of Coahuila alone. Much of it world class deer country comprised of very large ranches. Most all of these ranches along the river are highly prized for their deer hunting and well managed.And as said numerous B&C bucks come from there every year . I've never looked to see how many if any get recorded as I don't really care about B&C or P&Y or deer contests for that matter.
I did misspeak earlier. Just remembered my buddy recorded his net 192" 12 pt in B&C from our ranch. I filmed the whole hunt. Was pretty cool and a very exciting morning.
Regarding the pics I post, some of the bucks come from hi fenced pastures and some low fenced pastures. Can you tell the difference? What I will tell you is that there is no difference in the challenge of the hunt nor in the overall top end quality between the pastures. The hi fenced pastures are able to hold more bucks and we can better manage their respective herds is the big difference.
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Baker I really didn't want to get back into the fence deal with you and was just looking at the deer and all the talk of 200"+ deer and was wondering if they are so common how come none of the past WR Bucks came from there...I know the reason now...
You mentioned not caring about record books but you are hung up on score. Record books won't allow those bucks in so might as well not be hung up on them...
Now - lets get into fences...
Your Louisiana property...
Would it be holding any 200"+ bucks if it wasn't high fenced and the deer weren't fed like cattle? Seems you mentioned you couldn't hold any big deer before the fence because they kept strolling off your place and getting shot or something like that...real world stuff...irregardless of how much land is inside the fence the deer can still move in and out and can be pursued by 2 and 4 legged predators. We have a deer lease that encompasses a total of 15k acres and still lose a lot of top end deer to the neighbors...deer go where they want...
You mentioned not caring about record books but you are hung up on score. Record books won't allow those bucks in so might as well not be hung up on them...
Now - lets get into fences...
Your Louisiana property...
Would it be holding any 200"+ bucks if it wasn't high fenced and the deer weren't fed like cattle? Seems you mentioned you couldn't hold any big deer before the fence because they kept strolling off your place and getting shot or something like that...real world stuff...irregardless of how much land is inside the fence the deer can still move in and out and can be pursued by 2 and 4 legged predators. We have a deer lease that encompasses a total of 15k acres and still lose a lot of top end deer to the neighbors...deer go where they want...
Johnny, Let me start by correcting the idea that I am hung up on score. If you will look thru my thread on La. bucks as well as most all things I post regarding my management approach I mostly talk about age in reference to specific bucks.I did show the score on the wide B&C buck as a response to your question about world records from the area.I think he is very unique and as stated one of the widest B&C bucks in the world. I have numerous B&C qualifying whitetails as well as mule deer, elk and sheep. I've never entered any of them. Draw your own conclusions.
My interest as a manager is to grow the highest quality deer herd I can within the circumstances I have. Indicators of that include, b/d ratio, weights per age class, age structure, impact on habitat and , yes, trends and antler size especially of mature bucks.
To accomplish these goals I provide as much nutrition as I can, and manage the herd and habitat as best I know how.Not so different from what many strive to do. I do employ game fences on some of the property and have found it to be invaluable for the benefit of the deer.I can provide a better environment, with less stress, growing higher quality healthier deer and deer herd than I can without the fence.I've been on 'both sides of the fence' and have a pretty good reference point. That is my value system...to do what is best for the deer.
Regarding my La. farm I think I have been very open about where we are now and the history. You are right. We were never able to grow the quality of deer I wanted before the game fence. The game fence was the best thing that ever happened for the deer. However to think these deer feed or act in any way like cattle is...well condescending to whitetail deer.
I know you don't like game fences. Fair enough. I think you understand that I value them as a tool to benefit deer. We have different opinions here. So what.I am very happy with my decisions. If you are happy with yours then life is a very good thing. Lets go enjoy the upcoming deer season.
My interest as a manager is to grow the highest quality deer herd I can within the circumstances I have. Indicators of that include, b/d ratio, weights per age class, age structure, impact on habitat and , yes, trends and antler size especially of mature bucks.
To accomplish these goals I provide as much nutrition as I can, and manage the herd and habitat as best I know how.Not so different from what many strive to do. I do employ game fences on some of the property and have found it to be invaluable for the benefit of the deer.I can provide a better environment, with less stress, growing higher quality healthier deer and deer herd than I can without the fence.I've been on 'both sides of the fence' and have a pretty good reference point. That is my value system...to do what is best for the deer.
Regarding my La. farm I think I have been very open about where we are now and the history. You are right. We were never able to grow the quality of deer I wanted before the game fence. The game fence was the best thing that ever happened for the deer. However to think these deer feed or act in any way like cattle is...well condescending to whitetail deer.
I know you don't like game fences. Fair enough. I think you understand that I value them as a tool to benefit deer. We have different opinions here. So what.I am very happy with my decisions. If you are happy with yours then life is a very good thing. Lets go enjoy the upcoming deer season.
DrDirtNap
Active Member
Awesome deer....but I'm with Okie...deer grown behind a fence aren't the same....1000 acres or 15000 acres. I'm not against anybody who wants to hunt behind a fence but it's not for me. To each his own.
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catscratch
Well-Known Member
Baker... you suck!
I'm joking of course. The deer you post pics of are amazing, and with my fascination of antlers I can only gawk slack jawed at the unique arrangement of points and spread. Good stuff.
I'm joking of course. The deer you post pics of are amazing, and with my fascination of antlers I can only gawk slack jawed at the unique arrangement of points and spread. Good stuff.
Kwood
Well-Known Member
Baker, what would a deer like that weigh? Curious the size (body weight in La., vs Mexico?
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Like everywhere it depends on what stage of the rut as to what a deer will weigh. Our 'average' in Mexico generally starts at about 220 lbs early rut and with bucks run down by the end of the rut 180 lbs. We have taken bucks as heavy as 265 very early in the season.
Generally bucks on my farm run heavier. A 7 yr old I took early season a couple of years ago weighed 270. but overall weights range 220-250 early season and again can drop to as low as 180 late rut.
