Has anyone checked Ammo prices today?

Discussion in 'Guns/Reloading' started by Letmgrow, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. Drycreek

    Drycreek Well-Known Member

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    A friend who has a gun store told me last week that the Alliant factory burned down, so no Reloader powders for at least two years. That’s gonna throw a kink in some folks plans ! I was lucky in that I have almost two pounds of R19 and that will load many rounds of .280 Rem for my deer rifle. A couple deer per year plus the odd unlucky hog or coyote don’t take many shots. 15354DD6-6C9A-42E2-9457-87D52F2B592E.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
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  2. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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    Nice job Drycreek.

    I'm not too low on anything, but I would buy some IMR 4831 and some 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips in 30 caliber if I could find them. I would probably pick up 1,000 more large rifle primers too - CCI 250 preferred for me.
     
  3. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    In the past I always thought that I'd spend my time afield rather than reloading my own ammo, as spare time has always been a scarce commodity for me, and especially since reloading didn't used to really save money for people like me who don't shoot a lot, and factory ammo does everything that I need it to do, 300 yards is the longest shot I ever took at a moose or bear anyway. But on hindsight if I had purchased a bunch of reloading stuff years ago it would pay off big time now, and I'm guessing a lot of other shooters are starting to realize this as well.
     
  4. Native Hunter

    Native Hunter Well-Known Member

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    I'm an accuracy nut, and I load my own more for the consistency and being able to fine tune a load to a specific gun. One of the major ammo manufacturers admitted to me last year that they switch powders and even mix powders (based on what they have on hand) for the same loads with the same product numbers on the box. I got to asking around about this after having one box of factory shells that shot very well in a particular gun but then another box that was obviously different. He said that the only thing they were going for was to get the published velocity for the particular loads.

    Unfortunately, just because the velocity is the same, doesn't mean that the accuracy will be the same. As an example, I have a chronograph and can load my 25-06 to 3,150 fps with a 115 Nosler BT with 3 or 4 different powders. However, only IMR 4831 gives groups under 0.5 MOA, and some of the others will be as big as 1.4 MOA. All of them are at the same velocity, but one powder is much more accurate than the others in this particular gun.

    I do shoot some factory ammo, but just not in deer rifles or varmint rifles. One exception is a 300 Mag that I'm shooting factory shells in. It is exceptionally accurate, and I have a good stock of factory shells that shoot fine in it. Once those are gone, I will likely start loading for it too.
     
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  5. Drycreek

    Drycreek Well-Known Member

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    Native, I couldn’t agree more ! I reload for my .280 because I couldn’t find a factory load that would get under an inch at 100 yds. I also wanted to use a particular bullet, a Sierra Game King.

    I load for my 25-06 Ruger No. 1 also because no factory load could break 2 MOA, and I tried a bunch. I’m a half grain over max with IMR 4831 but the No. 1 is stout and there’s no pressure signs. With that load it’s a true one-holer.
     
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  6. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    As an owner what is your opinion on the Ruger no 1? To me, never having shot one, it seems like the design should be one of the most accurate out there, but I hear rumors otherwise...
     
  7. Elkaddict

    Elkaddict Well-Known Member

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    I’ve played around with Number 1 and they were hit or miss. I’ve read the pressure on the for-end needs to be addressed (akin to free floating but using the hangar system).
     
  8. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    There was an online post that claimed Ruger was buying cheap barrels to put on a great action?
     
  9. Elkaddict

    Elkaddict Well-Known Member

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    Funny you should mention Ruger barrels. I had a M77 in 338 that it was impossible to bore sight (looking through the bolt end) because it was not drilled straight through the barrel! Nonetheless, it was a tack driver with loads it liked. It would routinely stack 200grain ballistic tips into a single hole and carried that accuracy out to insane ranges. I stupidly sold the rifle when I upgraded to a 340wby. I’ve been trying to buy it back for 10 years!
    I’ve owned or loaded for a half dozen M77s, and could get most to shoot into 11/2”, and half into an 1”. My brother’s 270 is another matter. Despite being bedded and having a Timney trigger installed, it’s still at best a 2” gun. For the record, I warned him he was rolling the dice, and that he should simply go buy a Tikka and save the aggravation/$. He’s now wishing he had…. Sometimes it’s hard for big brothers to take advice!
     
  10. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    X2 on the Tikka advice.
    I have 2 M77's and several friends have them and they are all tack drivers with excellent triggers. Why would you need a trigger job on an m77?
     
  11. Elkaddict

    Elkaddict Well-Known Member

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    7.5lb trigger…. By far and away the worst I’ve seen on a M77. Probably a Friday afternoon build….
     
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  12. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    Probably a new employee straight out of high school, tho in my experiences I've seen much better quality work on Fridays than Mondays...
     
  13. massey

    massey Active Member

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    Just curious, how does a powder that’s done all of its job by the time the lead leaves the muzzle effect accuracy given same velocity? I’m only a bow hunter so don’t know a lot about rifles.


    Sent from my iPhone using Deer Hunter Forum
     
  14. Drycreek

    Drycreek Well-Known Member

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    MM, I’ve owned three Ruger No. 1 rifles, a .280, the 25-06, and a .300 Win Mag. I couldn’t get the .280 to do better than 1 1/2” groups, but the .300 was a true tack driver with the old Hornady Heavy Magnum loads, the precursor to the Superformance, (which was a big mistake IMO), and it took a handload worked up to make the .25-06 shoot. I was lucky with that, picked out a powder and bullet, started at the bottom, and every time I increased the powder charge the group tightened up. At a half grain over max I stopped with a one inch group.

    There is a gadget that can be installed in the forearm (to change the pressure on the barrel I presume) but I’ve never even seen one. Accuracy is largely about harmonics, (if other things are in line…trigger pull, good scope, good rest, etc.) and a good handload or factory load in some cases can deliver the consistent harmonics you need for good accuracy.

    That, in a nutshell is just getting the barrel to vibrate consistently with the bullet traveling through so that when it exits the barrel it exits as closely as possible to the same way it did the shot before and the same way it will the shot after. That’s the reason straight barrels and good bedding jobs are important, but a good shooter is important too. I’m not a good group shooter, but I normally kill what I shoot at. I’m better now that I’m older because I don’t want to chase anything !:D
     
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  15. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    A legitimate question, and your conditional statement "Given same velocity" is the answer. A simple answer without getting into ballistic coefficient and things like that is that cheaper powder won't give you the same velocity on each load, leading to inaccuracy. Some powder is rolled in flakes, some is ball, and some is cylindrical pellets, and like different species of wood, each one of these has different burn characteristics. Also, some will burn faster early, raising pressures and bullet speed during the first half of the length of the barrel, whereas others will burn hotter during the last half of the barrel length, so even if the muzzle velocity is the same, bullet spin will be different because of entering the rifling faster, effecting downrange performance even if muzzle velocity is the same. This and several other factors determine accuracy, but the biggest factor by far with the cheaper powders mentioned above being used in some factory loads is inconsistent burn, drastically affecting accuracy. And a company using slightly different powders for different batches of the same load would be even worse. To summarize, the best powders are the ones that have the most consistent burn, and there are certain numbers like IMR4350 and IMR4064 that are well known in the reloading to be top performers for certain calibers and bullets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
  16. Mennoniteman

    Mennoniteman Well-Known Member

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    I guess you have pretty much summed it up why not many other manufacturers have brought a break action rifle to the market, it's just hard to beat the simplicity and functionality of a bolt action. I've been tempted to buy a Ruger #1 but if I can get a Tikka for 1/3 the price, that's going to shoot twice as good out of the box, and have a magazine to carry my extra ammo built right into the action, why would I bother?
     
  17. Drycreek

    Drycreek Well-Known Member

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    Actually the Ruger is not a break action, and most break actions are as accurate or more so than the Rugers. The Ruger No. 1 is a drop block action and can be a good shooter, you just have to sneak up on it. Beautiful gun though, which most of the new crop of bolt guns are not, but they are accurate and you can buy one for you and one for your significant other for the price of one No. 1.

    The TC Encore is a break action, and with the addition of some springs from Mike Bellim (sp) it can be a one holer. I have one with a .50 caliber muzzleloader barrel and a .280 Rem barrel. Both are excellent shooters. They come from the factory with atrocious trigger pulls, but the springs will fix that I’m told. I sent my action off to Bullberry Barrels in Utah and my trigger is great. I cornered Larry Weishun and a TC rep up at the NRA convention several years ago and told Larry, (who is a great guy to visit with), that I knew he did not use those Encore rifles and handguns with the factory triggers. They looked at each other, then down at the floor, and finally Larry said “You tell him” The rep then reluctantly told me where to send the action to get the trigger worked on. I thought it was funny !
     
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