Hack and Squirt Chemicals?

[George]

All righty, I have a jug/gallon of 61% triclopyr waiting for me down at the post office. I saw online cat's black locust forest project. So I too am looking for reassurance, cat, MM. While I currently have 100s of dead maples up top the victims of hack or girdle 20% gly I also have black locust stumps treated with 8% triclopyr that look like they were treated with miracle grow. So my plan is to mix 1/3 gallon 61% triclopyr with the appropriate amount of diesel to make a gallon of 20% triclopyr solution with a couple of added ounces of dish soap for an emulsifier. My question is, does this solution sound good and is this % of triclopyr without a doubt sufficient or should I go higher? Thanks,

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

At the risk of giving bad advice, take this for what it's worth as I'm new to H & S method. Late last winter, I took a hatchet and straight gly in a small hand sprayer and did the H&S on quite a few hardwood trees - sweetgum, elm, hickory and oaks. Unless something changes, they all look as dead as a hammer. Dead, dead. None of them even leafed out. Very easy and so far, very effective with just straight gly.

Straight gly is about equal to a 33% dilution of triclopyr as far as its effectiveness in killing woody plants. The one thing with gly is that it's more readily available for most people. And price wise the straight gly in the ballpark to the 1/3 triclopyr mix.

 

[George]

Straight gly is about equal to a 33% dilution of triclopyr as far as its effectiveness in killing woody plants. The one thing with gly is that it's more readily available for most people. And price wise the straight gly in the ballpark to the 1/3 triclopyr mix.

I guess that answers my question, maybe, are you talking 33% dilution of a gallon of 61% that would actually result in a 20 1/3% triclopyr solution with diesel?

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

I guess that answers my question, maybe, are you talking 33% dilution of a gallon of 61% that would actually result in a 20 1/3% triclopyr solution with diesel?

G

Good question. Triclopyr 3 is 44.4% active ingredient, but Triclopyr 4 is 61.6% active ingredient, which is the most common, and is what you have. The recommended 1/3 - 2/3 mix that you are referring to is Triclopyr 4 at 61.6% active ingredient, this is what commercial guys often use.

So, to simplify this hack& squirt mix ratio for everybody; take 1 cup of Triclopyr and mix to 2 cups of diesel fuel. 1 gallon of Triclopyr 4 makes 3 gallons of mixed herbicide. Kerosene or home heating fuel is fine as well, about the same thing as diesel.

Note; this is a very strong mixture for hack and squirt or stump treatment. For spraying green leaves of woody plants mix 1 cup Triclopyr to a gallon of water. These two formula's are close to the maximum allowed rates per label.
Here is the Triclopyr label that pertains to the above;
Low Volume Basal Bark Treatment - To control susceptible woody plants with stems less than 6 inches in basal diameter, mix 20 to 30 gallons of Alligare Triclopyr 4 in enough oil to make 100 gallons of spray solution. Apply with a back pack or knapsack sprayer using low pressure and a solid cone or flat fan nozzle. Spray the basal parts of brush and tree trunks in a manner which thoroughly wets the lower stems, including the root collar area, but not to the point of runoff. Herbicide concentration should vary with size and susceptibility of species treated. Apply at any time, including the winter months, except when snow or water prevents spraying to the ground line or when stem surfaces are saturated with water.
Low Volume Foliar Applications For control of woody plants, mix up to 20 quarts of Alligare Triclopyr 4 in 10 to 100 gallons of spray solution. Adjust the spray concentration of Alligare Triclopyr 4 and total spray volume per acre to match the size and density of target woody plants and kinds of spray equipment used. With low volume sprays, use sufficient spray volume to obtain uniform coverage of target plants including the surfaces of all foliage, stems, and root collars. For best results, a surfactant should be added to all spray mixtures. See the SPRAY ADDITIVES section for a rate recommendation.

 

[Mennoniteman]

When I started this thread in 2017 I had 40 years of experience with a chainsaw under my belt, but zero experience with hack and squirt, now I've got 3 years on this hacking business. I spend many days in the woods in a years time cutting firewood, cutting down problem trees for friends, killing invasive trees, clearing deadfalls over roads, etc. so here's a few observations for anyone that's interested in killing off some trees;
#1 Be safe, cutting trees is one of the most dangerous occupations out there. I can tell you a broken back hurts a lot. Hatchets and machete's in hacking procedures are dangerous too. Always let someone know where you are working at in the woods.
#2 To me "Hacking" is for trees with no other options. These days I hack a few trees just for the axe experience, then without fail I go for my chainsaw and cut the hacks into the bark on an angle with the saw, and squirt the sawcut, much less labor.
#3 It's still my first choice to drop a tree with a chainsaw and spray the stump with gly or tricloyr. This is the surest way to kill a tree, and to me, it's the easiest, and uses less chemical. Downsides; more danger, and more of a mess in the woods. Upsides; makes great habitat.
#4 Don't overlook drilling; Drill several 1" holes into the tree on a downward angle with a cordless drill and shooting some active ingredient into the hole. this method kills bigger trees where hack& squirt own't work This is probably the preferred method for professional foresters controlling invasive trees.
#5 With trees less than 6" in diameter you can use the Low Volume Basal Bark Treatment noted in my post above. No hacking means covering areas much faster. I have done this on 50 acres last year with good success. Downsides; uses more chemicals. Not quite 100% kill ratio.

 

[George]

I got my jug (alligare triclopyr 61% $59 + $11 if it fits it ships usps off Amazon).

Doing a direct proportion 30 gallons of product/100 gallons of oil = 1 gallon of product/x gallons oil, x= 3.33 gallons of oil making 4 1/3 gallons of solution.

But Mennoniteman you are saying that commercial guys are using a 1/3 to 2/3 mix which would be 50 gallons of product to 100 gallons of oil which still leaves me wondering.

My bigger black locust are probably 16" in diameter, would I drill in one hole per tree?

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

I got my jug (alligare triclopyr 61% $59 + $11 if it fits it ships usps off Amazon).

Doing a direct proportion 30 gallons of product/100 gallons of oil = 1 gallon of product/x gallons oil, x= 3.33 gallons of oil making 4 1/3 gallons of solution.

But Mennoniteman you are saying that commercial guys are using a 1/3 to 2/3 mix which would be 50 gallons of product to 100 gallons of oil which still leaves me wondering.

My bigger black locust are probably 16" in diameter, would I drill in one hole per tree?

G

You are right,, The Label says: "mix 20 to 30 gallons of Alligare Triclopyr 4 in enough oil to make 100 gallons of spray solution" That's 30 gallon of chemical to 70 gallons of oil, which is slightly weaker than the 1/3-2/3 mix we are talking about. I have a different label somewhere than the Allagare brand that had the slightly stronger mix on it. The 1/3 mix should be within the error tolerances for the product. But I'm always for using as little as possible, I'd suggest experimenting with a weaker mix to avoid killing trees that you still want.

 

[George]

Yes, I can read correctly now, thanks for clearing that up for me. 1 + 2 = 3. I did buy 2 gallons of diesel.

G

 

[Mennoniteman]

I got my jug (alligare triclopyr 61% $59 + $11 if it fits it ships usps off Amazon).

Doing a direct proportion 30 gallons of product/100 gallons of oil = 1 gallon of product/x gallons oil, x= 3.33 gallons of oil making 4 1/3 gallons of solution.

But Mennoniteman you are saying that commercial guys are using a 1/3 to 2/3 mix which would be 50 gallons of product to 100 gallons of oil which still leaves me wondering.

My bigger black locust are probably 16" in diameter, would I drill in one hole per tree?

G

I think I'd do two holes per tree on that size. Drilling a hole into the heart and putting salt into the heart will kill it too.

 

[George]

I think I'd do two holes per tree on that size. Drilling a hole into the heart and putting salt into the heart will kill it too.

10-4 thanks.

G

 

[Troubled Trees]

At the risk of giving bad advice, take this for what it's worth as I'm new to H & S method. Late last winter, I took a hatchet and straight gly in a small hand sprayer and did the H&S on quite a few hardwood trees - sweetgum, elm, hickory and oaks. Unless something changes, they all look as dead as a hammer. Dead, dead. None of them even leafed out. Very easy and so far, very effective with just straight gly.

When you say "straight Gly" is it 100% Glyphosate on the label? If so, where does one find it? The highest Gly ratio I can find locally is 41% in Roundup, and that is at Tractor Supply.

 

[Mennoniteman]

When you say "straight Gly" is it 100% Glyphosate on the label? If so, where does one find it? The highest Gly ratio I can find locally is 41% in Roundup, and that is at Tractor Supply.

You won't find any stronger glyphosate mix anywhere. When people say "straight gly" they mean the 41% product. As in, straight from the container that you buy it in. Because chemicals need multiple additives to stabilize and preserve them, the active ingredient is always only a percentage of the product, generally less than half. Whenever mixtures, application rates, and measurement volumes are specified, they are generally referring to the product by volume as its poured out of the jug, although dry chemicals can be referred to by weight sometimes, but that also means the total weight of the combined product. So, killing trees with straight gly means squirting the 41%product right on the tree bark. But I'd add at least a little water to help it flow better.

 

[Troubled Trees]

You won't find any stronger glyphosate mix anywhere. When people say "straight gly" they mean the 41% product. As in, straight from the container that you buy it in. Because chemicals need multiple additives to stabilize and preserve them, the active ingredient is always only a percentage of the product, generally less than half. Whenever mixtures, application rates, and measurement volumes are specified, they are generally referring to the product by volume as its poured out of the jug, although dry chemicals can be referred to by weight sometimes, but that also means the total weight of the combined product. So, killing trees with straight gly means squirting the 41%product right on the tree bark. But I'd add at least a little water to help it flow better.

Ok great information bud, thank you very much.

 

[cutman]

You won't find any stronger glyphosate mix anywhere. When people say "straight gly" they mean the 41% product. As in, straight from the container that you buy it in. Because chemicals need multiple additives to stabilize and preserve them, the active ingredient is always only a percentage of the product, generally less than half. Whenever mixtures, application rates, and measurement volumes are specified, they are generally referring to the product by volume as its poured out of the jug, although dry chemicals can be referred to by weight sometimes, but that also means the total weight of the combined product. So, killing trees with straight gly means squirting the 41%product right on the tree bark. But I'd add at least a little water to help it flow better.

I agree with this except the part about 41% being the strongest glyphosate concentration. Name brand Powermax is 48% and I think there is even a 56% version. Most farmers refer to glyphosate as either 5# product or 4# - name brand and some generics are usually 5# and the 41% generics are 4#.

 

[Mennoniteman]

I agree with this except the part about 41% being the strongest glyphosate concentration. Name brand Powermax is 48% and I think there is even a 56% version. Most farmers refer to glyphosate as either 5# product or 4# - name brand and some generics are usually 5# and the 41% generics are 4#.

You're right, my mistake. Roundup powermax is 48.7% glyphosate.