Giles Island
- Thread starter Bullwinkle
- Start date
DeltaDog
New Member
That's what I've used in the past... Anectine is a powder. There are either 3 or 4 chambers beneath the balloon... The hunter fills the chambers with the powder, then places the balloon over the powder... When it enters the animal. the balloon rolls back, the the powder is carried into the wound... and into the blood stream...
I can't tell you the science of it; frankly, I'm surprised that it is still legal, although it probably does lead to a higher recovery rate. The meat is safe to eat, although, again, I can't explain the science of that, either.
I was always scared of it, but, the last deer I shot with an arrow (without a pod) was a doe. 23 steps from my tree, and I aimed a little bit low. She jumped the string, and I hit her either in the top of her lungs, or just above.... I climbed down, smoked 2 cigarettes, and walked over to where she was when I shot. Good blood, so I sat and slowly smoked 2 more cigarettes. Took the trail about an hour after I shot. Followed it about 100 yards, just across a ridge, and found my arrow, missing about 4 inches, and the broadhead. And about as much blood as it would take to cover the hood of a pickup truck. I smoked 1 more cigarette, took the trail again, and lost blood 50 yards later. 4 hours later, I had circled on my hands and knees out to 100 yards from last blood. Through waist high grass and brush, in the Mississippi River bottoms, constantly scared I was was going to run up on Mr. No-Shoulders (cottonmouths)... never did, and never found the deer. October 1st, about 1996 or so... The deer carried off 4 inches of my arrow, and my broadhead. She died. And I was sick.
I didn't bowhunt for 2 years. And finally decided to bowhunt, with anectine... But, like I said, I never took a shot with anectine...
Either a combination of Xylazone and Telazol or a combination of Butorphanol, Azaperone and Medotomidine. I am thinking Kubota's taxidermist was misinformed. 200" at 3 years old doesn't take steroids, I can guarantee that.
Perhaps he was but as far as steroids but Growth Hormone is not out of the question...he just said they shot them up with stuff to grow the freakish racks...I have a deer farmer that lives near my Home 10 who has penned deer he feeds as much protein as they can take and he isn't getting freaks and I mean freaks at 2 and 3 years old. The deers racks I saw didn't even look like deer racks at the taxidermist...they looked like lightning strikes with points in every direction and unnatural. The Kentucky buck that was killed this year and is the New WR free range buck actually looked like a deer rack albeit with lots of points...The racks I saw looked like absolute freaks...
Irregardless you weren't allowed to eat the meat and it was discarded so for $25K you could shoot a deer with a rack that didn't even look like it came off a deer and have no meat...absolute waste...
Doctorbrady
Well-Known Member
Anectine is the brand name for succinylcholine chloride which is a powerful muscle relaxant (paralytic) typically used for paralyzing a patient (human or animal) for intubation. I used it for just that purpose earlier this week. It is very potent, but has a short working time of 5-10 minutes, in my experience.
I used to have some friends from MS that I hunted with when I was A LOT YOUNGER. We hunted deer and hogs on some property that was also infested with feral cats. Hypothetically, I may have seen the effects of the drug on some feral felines...and hypothetically, it was remarkably effective
. The guys I knew just used a small balloon over the shaft. The broadhead was threaded down over the balloon, which attached it to the arrow. Powder was rolled up into the balloon which would unroll and release the powder when an animal was hit. It is an effective way of killing an animal, but much too dangerous to be justified in my opinion. There is also a lot of debate on whether or not it is actually legal, even in MS. It is my understanding that Federal law makes it illegal to use the drug in ways other than what it is approved for. Furthermore, it can only be obtained by prescription or by a person with an appropriate DEA certification. Personally, I would never put my license on the line prescribing the drug to someone for the purpose of hunting. It would also make a hard to detect "murder drug" for people. Not something I want on my conscience!
Though, much of it is broken down when ingested, I would not want to risk the potential effects personally, nor would I feel good about feeding it to my kids. If you were ever affected by the poison and had someone proficient in CPR around, you should survive if cardiopulmonary support were provided until the drug wore off several minutes later. I will stick to sharp broadheads and well placed shots...and tracking dogs when things are off a pinch.
I used to have some friends from MS that I hunted with when I was A LOT YOUNGER. We hunted deer and hogs on some property that was also infested with feral cats. Hypothetically, I may have seen the effects of the drug on some feral felines...and hypothetically, it was remarkably effective
. The guys I knew just used a small balloon over the shaft. The broadhead was threaded down over the balloon, which attached it to the arrow. Powder was rolled up into the balloon which would unroll and release the powder when an animal was hit. It is an effective way of killing an animal, but much too dangerous to be justified in my opinion. There is also a lot of debate on whether or not it is actually legal, even in MS. It is my understanding that Federal law makes it illegal to use the drug in ways other than what it is approved for. Furthermore, it can only be obtained by prescription or by a person with an appropriate DEA certification. Personally, I would never put my license on the line prescribing the drug to someone for the purpose of hunting. It would also make a hard to detect "murder drug" for people. Not something I want on my conscience! Though, much of it is broken down when ingested, I would not want to risk the potential effects personally, nor would I feel good about feeding it to my kids. If you were ever affected by the poison and had someone proficient in CPR around, you should survive if cardiopulmonary support were provided until the drug wore off several minutes later. I will stick to sharp broadheads and well placed shots...and tracking dogs when things are off a pinch
.I don't argue the point about wasting an entire deer being a shame. I am simply adding some information so that people don't keep unknowingly continue spreading false information. Every 3 year old we raised this year had every characteristic you would expect in a whitetail rack, they were all completely healthy, and none were fed steroids, growth hormone or anything else you wouldn't find being fed to other forms of livestock across this country. Also, every single one of them scored 200 or over, and all prettier than the new world record IMO. Maybe your neighbor just isn't very good at raising deer? I don't even know that many things people assume are being fed are available for use in deer feed. We have to jump through many hoops to add any sort of medication to feed (ie. dewormer or antibiotics.) Also, if that guy paid 25k for a deer scoring less than 300" he got ripped off. I know you don't care for this particular industry, and I am not trying to be a pain, just providing some facts.
Reagan
Member
But he would have a chance at a 150 so to some, it is well worth it.
But not for me.
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Ah...now it becomes clear...
I don't have exact scores on these deer but I just called them 200" deer...nobody surrendered a score to me and we didn't discuss it. I lost all interest at the point the meat and fence discussion came up...
My neighbor who raises deer may just not be very good but his 2 and 3 year olds look like nice whitetail deer...I know his protein bill is out of this world and I don't even know why he is doing it because I see just as big outside the fence as I do inside. I do know he had to buy all of the breeder deer inside the 400 acre enclosure because the State of Oklahoma owns the deer herd which means the people of the state...not person...I am not sure what state he bought the breeders from but he mentioned "northern deer"...
dogghr
Well-Known Member
There better be good food and hot strippers involved at that price. JK on the strippers. Ok maybe not.
Cool thread regardless. I"m thinking a lot of that " murder drug" Doc was speaking of.. Familiar with it but didn't know it was so undetectable post mortem. I'm just rambling don't take me too serious. Not sure its legality really means someone would take bad shots. Could say that about any weapon if an unethical hunter,
And I agree, don't see anabolic steroids would have that affect especailly on 3 yo. We have had in the past a few farms around here and never saw any ridiculous deer come from them. I know a guy that did shoot an escaped Fallow deer of some sort on property I hunted. Basically tame.
A buddy of mine sells hunts on his Mexican ranch by me. $3500 base price including any buck up to 150". Bigger than that $100 inch 150-160. $200 inch 160- 170. $300 inch 170-180. Generally see 20-30 bucks or more a day. Fully guided w video. Never see another hunter while out. Flies them to his ranch in his airplane. Chef, waiter, deluxe facilities. Generally beautiful mild weather in pristine remote mostly uninhabited vast brush land. 3 full days, two half days. Mostly takes his buddies. Epic experience. Viva Mexico!
wbpdeer
Well-Known Member
I sure don't want my grandkids thinking they need a drug to kill their deer. They have been trained to take a killing shot that is patiently wait for. They have seen deer get to live because the killing shot was not presented.
Knowing what I know about human nature, what you plan on getting and what you get can be differently. Hunters mishandling a poisoned arrow and getting the poison into their bloodstream will occur from time to time.
Now I understand some think differently than me. If I had the last vote - MS would not be using a poisoned arrow. Kubota - would you vote like me? MS likes what they have - otherwise they would change it.
Knowing what I know about human nature, what you plan on getting and what you get can be differently. Hunters mishandling a poisoned arrow and getting the poison into their bloodstream will occur from time to time.
Now I understand some think differently than me. If I had the last vote - MS would not be using a poisoned arrow. Kubota - would you vote like me? MS likes what they have - otherwise they would change it.
If that is low fence then that might be a great deal for the OP or anyone else looking for a great getaway late season hunt. I hunted the King Ranch in South Texas a few times for Javelina and Hogs and it was all low fence. Gate we went in was just outside a town and there were 150-160" bucks grazing right along the highway through there. I was pretty impressed because that area was all open for us to hunt and we saw shooting houses everywhere.
Kabic
Active Member
Hey Rocky!!
Taking away things ingrained in culture is a slippery slope... I am pretty outspoken on what I agree with and don't agree with but I feel that the individual States should determine the best course of action for their State with the input from the actual hunters in their State. Of course, just because it is legal doesn't mean that is what the hunters want? Perhaps a State Senator wants it or the Governor but most of the Hunters don't...how do you think that will go...I sure don't want my grandkids thinking they need a drug to kill their deer. They have been trained to take a killing shot that is patiently wait for. They have seen deer get to live because the killing shot was not presented.
Knowing what I know about human nature, what you plan on getting and what you get can be differently. Hunters mishandling a poisoned arrow and getting the poison into their bloodstream will occur from time to time.
Now I understand some think differently than me. If I had the last vote - MS would not be using a poisoned arrow. Kubota - would you vote like me? MS likes what they have - otherwise they would change it.
I am thinking of something legal in Oklahoma that is legal but not shared by all hunters as right and that is baiting. We are allowed to bait and run feeders for deer here. It is kind of like an Arms race in the fact that if your neighbor baits, you have too to draw deer because it changes the natural movement patterns of the deer. When we bought our place and were trying to contact neighbors to let them know about the low 4 wire fence we were putting up I saw feeders everywhere so I knew it would just be something we were going to have to do. I can hear 4 feeders go off from my main stand in the center of our place and none of them are mine. I have found that feeders don't work well for actually killing deer in this area because everytime a deer sticks it's nose out on a feeder in the woods someone gets hurt. Bait poured directly on the ground back in the timber is a different deal altogether! Does and Mature bucks WILL use that and can be killed off of it at many times throughout the season. I killed my big 9 point coming in to a rice bran pile on October 2nd. The problem with that is that it is very expensive as a 50 lb bag of corn won't last 1 day on the ground and a 40 lb bag of rice bran is 2 days tops.
If they put it to a vote of the hunters in our state I would elect to vote against baiting but it has never come up for a vote and probably never will. I know how to utilize the woods without it so if they say we can't do it any longer I am good with that and if I ever get to hunt an area where everyone around is not baiting I will stop but the only places that would be is in our public hunting areas. Having written all of this I will say what I feel is right or good for Oklahoma but if another State has it's own moral compass on this stuff I will just agree to disagree but will never vote to do away with their way of doing things like pods and dog running...I figure those things will take care of themselves over the long run...
Bullwinkle
Active Member
It's a pretty top shelf camp. Pricing to me seemed in line for the experience. Yes, I think my chances are better on my farm in WI for a 140" but not in the month of January (season closed). Where else can you find rutting deer this time of year plus the cultural experience was worth every dime. Heck I saw 13 deer in 3 days and I am going back next year.
Remember those success percentages are from me triangulating pieces of data but I believe I am very close.
Also, this thread moved toward high fenced deer. They are not doing anything with outside genetics that I know of on Giles Island. I think they feed a little protein in the winter and that's it. At least that's what I understood from talking with the guides and repeat guests
Cool camp. There is a reason it took me 5 years to get in.
The king ranch sounds like another place worth checking out. Thanks for the tip
Bull, I leased 12,000 acres of King Ranch for several years. It is a remarkable, historic place like nowhere else I have ever been. When we negotiated the lease we were at headquarters having breakfast and the triple crown was the table center piece. Very rich history. Incredible wildlife and habitat. I can speak volumes to the amazing place! Happy to share any details if interested.
Mexico has much bigger deer.
Mexico has much bigger deer.
Bullwinkle
Active Member
The ranch I hunt in East Texas has bigger deer than Giles too. Everything's bigger in Texas
Any idea on how much a bow hunt in Jan on King Ranch cost. The web site asked to fill out an application for a hunt. Wow, I am worried this is out of my price range. Is the rut still going on then?
Any idea on how much a bow hunt in Jan on King Ranch cost. The web site asked to fill out an application for a hunt. Wow, I am worried this is out of my price range. Is the rut still going on then?
I am not current on King Ranch pricing though I can find out. I would expect it to be pricey. What I can tell you is that it should be a bowhunters dream. Lots of mellow deer in beautiful easy to hunt country. Late for the rut there in Jan though you may still see signs of it . Frankly the rut not that critical to success there. Spot and stalk bowhunting plausible and a pup tent very effective. Just add corn. Our lease was chock full of 150-165" bucks. Fabulous quail and turkey hunting. Nilgai, feral hogs, javelinas, ducks, geese, doves...a wildlife dream. NOTHING like East Tx. or Giles Island!
