Bullwinkle
Active Member
One winter and one summer
Fence update
- Thread starter Bullwinkle
- Start date
Quite a difference...
Bullwinkle
Active Member
This mild winter seemed to cause a boom in population. A few years ago we hardly had a fawn, this year twins and triplets are plentiful
Time to knock down some does
Time to knock down some does
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
Thinning your herd seems like a good plan. And maybe all of the rest of us should be putting exclusion cages in our woods as well as our food plots. We might be surprised how many of the rest of us have the same problem with over browsing.
Bullwinkle
Active Member
I bought the land for deer hunting not to grow trees. Farmers clear land to grow crops, forester hate deer and want to kill everyone, developers put building on the land, etc. I want good deer hunting
The does had twins and triplets this year so they are not hurting. Yes I am going to shoot more does than last year, everyone in fact that I get an opportunity to while maintaining low pressure. If I get 5, great, 16 even better but I will not create high pressure for a single doe
The does had twins and triplets this year so they are not hurting. Yes I am going to shoot more does than last year, everyone in fact that I get an opportunity to while maintaining low pressure. If I get 5, great, 16 even better but I will not create high pressure for a single doe
Chainsaw
Well-Known Member
Bullwinkle, your fence pictures are excellent and are very revealing as to what the deer do to the landscape. We had a one acre exclusion fence here and the results over the years of growth within the fenced area compared to growth outside the fenced area were amazing both in the amount of growth and in the many types of plants growing inside versus outside the fenced area.
I get a lot of your thinking and agree with a good portion of it. I look forward to someday discussing all of this with you in person as much of what I agree with would take pages to go over and the few things we might disagree on, well that could take even more pages. So for now though I'd like to share with you our system for cropping does that has worked excellent for us over the years and the resultant pressure has helped keep our deer on our property rather than drive them off and even trains them to stay away from the road during daytimes. We built a couple of population control food plots of less than 1/2 acre each very, very close to the road yet screened from the road so neither the plots nor the deer are visible from the road. Bucks quickly learn not to venture near that road where the population control food plots are located;does eventually catch on but the task is usually completed by then. Note; Here there is no 500 feet rule about shooting near a road, one needs only to be standing a step beyond the mowed edge of the roadway.
Each of the plots take only an extremely short walk to directly access from the road. Bucks of all ages generally travel behind the plot as they know that 1/2 acre near the road to be a dangerous place for them. So it is NOT a plot that a mature buck will ever be caught in. The keys to keeping this high pressure 1/2 acre contained is the very short access, wind direction of course, accurate shooting and perfect shot placement which is easily accomplished with standing shots no longer than a half acre. We do not hunt there hoping for a buck and taking a doe once in a while. It is strictly a population control plot period; we go there to shoot does. All does are shot in the point of the shoulder so they instantly drop right where they are standing. Yes the shot placement damages a certain amount of meat but that is the cost in this case of our low impact population control program.
I get a lot of your thinking and agree with a good portion of it. I look forward to someday discussing all of this with you in person as much of what I agree with would take pages to go over and the few things we might disagree on, well that could take even more pages. So for now though I'd like to share with you our system for cropping does that has worked excellent for us over the years and the resultant pressure has helped keep our deer on our property rather than drive them off and even trains them to stay away from the road during daytimes. We built a couple of population control food plots of less than 1/2 acre each very, very close to the road yet screened from the road so neither the plots nor the deer are visible from the road. Bucks quickly learn not to venture near that road where the population control food plots are located;does eventually catch on but the task is usually completed by then. Note; Here there is no 500 feet rule about shooting near a road, one needs only to be standing a step beyond the mowed edge of the roadway.
Each of the plots take only an extremely short walk to directly access from the road. Bucks of all ages generally travel behind the plot as they know that 1/2 acre near the road to be a dangerous place for them. So it is NOT a plot that a mature buck will ever be caught in. The keys to keeping this high pressure 1/2 acre contained is the very short access, wind direction of course, accurate shooting and perfect shot placement which is easily accomplished with standing shots no longer than a half acre. We do not hunt there hoping for a buck and taking a doe once in a while. It is strictly a population control plot period; we go there to shoot does. All does are shot in the point of the shoulder so they instantly drop right where they are standing. Yes the shot placement damages a certain amount of meat but that is the cost in this case of our low impact population control program.
Sometimes you have to go too far to understand where the correct quiting point really is. Our G&F has pushed the balanced herd theory for years - shoot your does down to approximately the same number as your bucks. We bought into the whole theory, more intense rut, bigger bucks, healthier deer. It ended up all being nonsense - but we had to go there to realize that. Now, we know that for our land conditions - we need about a 1:2 buck to doe ratio - maybe even a few more does than that. You know more does produce more bucks. We are still well within our carrying capacity. We dont kill does, because hunters on the adjoining properties have still not seen the light and kill our does for us. But often times, you actually have to cross the fence to see if the grass is really greener - maybe it is, and maybe it isnt.
Mennoniteman
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a good program, but it might have too many variables and demands for some people, such as a spare concealed food plot out by the road with the prevailing wind direction good, and the shooting ability to drop deer on the spot, and the time to make it all happen. And is assuming that everyone's male and female deer cooperate as well as yours. A lot of my timing to harvest antlerless deer hinges on when it suits me to butcher them. At that time I'll usually go shoot them wherever they are.
Chainsaw
Well-Known Member
You are correct that there are variables for different locations;i.e. if there is a shooting 500 ft. from the road rule in one's area then the access impact becomes much greater. Not every tactic works on every property for sure. Which way a property lies in relation to a road and normal afternoon wind directions of course would make a difference.
I do though disagree with shooting ability for any experienced hunter using a single shot firearm to drop a deer on the spot being a variable; While a square 1/2 acre is 50 yards long and wide. The deer usually end up at the twenty-five to thirty yard zone or even closer; hitting inside a three inch circle at that distance with a rifle or even a muzzleloader is a gimme shot for most hunters and more likely most could hit a quarter and some a dime at that distance. We are shooting from a blind and can even use shooting sticks or a shooting table if necessary. One simply must practice the shot often. Further I don't see the deer cooperating being much of a variable, they act the way they do because they have been trained to go to that food plot. Shooting does just anywhere on the property is just not low impact hunting and creates unnecessary hunting pressure on the rest of the herd. If one is ok with the increased hunting pressure then that would be another story.
Triple C
Well-Known Member
Bull...The contrast between the growth inside the fence as compared to outside the fence is amazing. Can't imagine that kind of browse. We have so much browse after thinning that I don't think 70 to 80 dsm density would be more than a little noticeable. I can't imagine a landscape like that where every leaf on the stems outside the fence is gone. Ever think about clearcutting sections just to promote early successional habitat?
Bullwinkle
Active Member
That is a really cool idea. New one to me Chainsaw. I completely see how this could work. I need to think about how to use this
Bullwinkle
Active Member
I did an 8 acre shelterwood cut unfenced. Got world class blackberryies. Had to plant norways because nothing can grow. Turned out as awesome diversity but not in oak and hard maple
Bullwinkle
Active Member
It's interesting everyone's perspective. I had a buddy up hunting with me a couple of weeks ago. He told me in one weekend he saw as many bucks as he sees in about 3 seasons. His land is in CWD control where they shot every deer that moved. He told me to becareful and not fall into the shoot every deer that moves because I'll regret it. We had average sightings and he was giggling like a new hunter just seeing deer.
I agree. I read about guys referring to 80 deer per square mile and cant even fathom that. We would be feeling great with 30 deer per square mile.
I'd be giggling too if I were in the same situation.
Chainsaw
Well-Known Member
Thanks Bull. It is not something we really thought of but rather just something that sort of naturally evolved over the years as we have sought to grow older bucks. Those plots are also used to break in new hunters because of the easy shooting and expected action. The new hunters do very well there. They are not tied in to shooting behind the shoulder so they learn the shot very quickly.
We practice the shot using old color printed archery targets where the deer is almost life size. We practice from about eight yards out to thirty and teach the new hunters to do the same. It is amazing how difficult it is for many people to hit the right spot at eight yards versus thirty when they first try it. Practice is done with BB guns or 22's mostly with a dress rehearsal using their hunting gun before hunting.
These plots should continue to work well for us as long as we don't let the population get too far out of control. I do have opportunities for similar plots but would rather not need to bulldoze any more in. This is not to say that in certain other areas bordering properties that are out of proportion high danger to the deer that we don't sometimes shoot a doe or two; It's just no longer our norm. Just think of it; we park the car and step thru the hedgerow by the road take 50 steps or less across a fallow field and step into a second hedge row about 10 yards wide into the back of the natural built blind with views of the entire 1/2 acre or so plot. A doe or two is shot when the first ones come out. We walk back directly across the fallow field to the car and get the tractor, drive it slowly into the plot to the deer, roll the deer into the bucket and gut on the fallow field side of the road hedgerow and home it can go. We have taken only a handful of footsteps in the plot area. We can return to that plot immediately and maybe catch another wave or two of visitors that same evening if conditions are good.
Bullwinkle
Active Member
I had plots on my property lines but Sturgis taught me the poor logic in this. I eliminated them
Having plots set up just for does I think is interesting idea. The keep is to just attract does is the real challenge. . More open areas. Difficult access spots for your neighbors,etc. I have some spots this could work
Having plots set up just for does I think is interesting idea. The keep is to just attract does is the real challenge. . More open areas. Difficult access spots for your neighbors,etc. I have some spots this could work
Chainsaw
Well-Known Member
I agree that having plots along property lines has too many downsides especially during the rut; the key for ours working is having them near the road. And in both cases across the street from each road plot are open hardwoods, not preplanned. It just happened that way.
