Coyotes and Nest Predators

I've actually sat in one of our deer stand during deer season with a 22 just so I could shoot coons. We have one stand on the property that I can shoot at least one every time. My record is 4 in one sit.

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Same here. I've always thought of the yote as somewhat beneficial for keeping rodent populations down and not too hard on deer (locally anyway). Coons and other nest predators are always actively pursued though. Can't kill enough of them.
 
Not to be argumentative... but did the study say they killed 50% of fawns born, or were they responsible for 50% of total fawn mortality? Not that it matters much to me as my herd is not shrinking so whatever checks and balances nature has going I'm good with it for the moment.
Are you going to a track meet friday?

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If coyotes kill half your fawns you need better fawning cover. I would bet the study was somewhere coyotes are a recent addition. They seem to get more in the southeast than in the Midwest where there have always been coyotes.
 
If coyotes kill half your fawns you need better fawning cover. I would bet the study was somewhere coyotes are a recent addition. They seem to get more in the southeast than in the Midwest where there have always been coyotes.

Why would we not need less coyotes?
 
I just had a stray cat have kittens at my house. During the night another stray cat went into the box and made a kitten start crying and within 5 minutes a coon was eating that kitten.
 
Why would we not need less coyotes?

There are studies showing the less howling at night a female coyote hears the larger her litter will be. We have been trying to exterminate the coyote for over a hundred years and all they have done is expand their range. Your fighting a loosing battle there. Give your deer the best cover and enough of it and you will save many more fawns than shooting a yote or two! I figure the work the coyotes do on my nest predators I owe them a couple of deer here and there. I will tell you on my place I have more deer than quail.

I just had a stray cat have kittens at my house. During the night another stray cat went into the box and made a kitten start crying and within 5 minutes a coon was eating that kitten.

Something good to be said for coons I guess.
 
We have no quail, no turkeys, no rabbits. I could not reasonably provide better habitat than I do right now on my 300 acres. Problem is, the neighbors could - but wont. I cant change the habitat on my neighbor’s land, but I can change the number of predators on my neighbors land.;)
 
Coyotes might not wipe out fawn crops, but they can sure ruin hunts on primo rut days that I work my tail off for. When they are in my river bottom sanctuary which is intensely managed prime habitat, the hunting sucks. If u want coyotes please take mine.
 
Statewide fawn/doe ratio is about .48 fawns per doe. I do annual camera surveys and over the years - through habitat manipulation and improvement, and trapping/killing predators - fawn recruitment on my land averages about .6 fawns per doe. Coyote game cam pic increase three fold during May and June around my good fawning cover. I dont think it is that coyotes recognize good fawning cover (although they are pretty smart) - I just think they smell and see where the increased doe activity is, and I am sure there is a different smell where miltiple does are bearing fawns.

When you consider the average adult doe in our state is carrying 1.7 fetuses - and converting that to .48 fawns - something is happening to a lot of fawns.
 
Coyotes might not wipe out fawn crops, but they can sure ruin hunts on primo rut days that I work my tail off for. When they are in my river bottom sanctuary which is intensely managed prime habitat, the hunting sucks. If u want coyotes please take mine.

Kind of weird how different areas of the country are so different in patterns. I see coyotes on a regular basis while hunting, and often times in close proximity to deer... they tend to ignore each other. There seems to be zero impact on my hunts on whether a coyote is around or not. In fact I've witnessed deer chase off a yote or two on multiple occasions. My experience (on a local level) is that deer view yotes as zero threat. Not saying your place isn't different, just saying its cool how behaviors are different when you change locals.
 
Statewide fawn/doe ratio is about .48 fawns per doe. I do annual camera surveys and over the years - through habitat manipulation and improvement, and trapping/killing predators - fawn recruitment on my land averages about .6 fawns per doe. Coyote game cam pic increase three fold during May and June around my good fawning cover. I dont think it is that coyotes recognize good fawning cover (although they are pretty smart) - I just think they smell and see where the increased doe activity is, and I am sure there is a different smell where miltiple does are bearing fawns.

When you consider the average adult doe in our state is carrying 1.7 fetuses - and converting that to .48 fawns - something is happening to a lot of fawns.
Swamp, it sounds like you study your herd rather well! Congrats on that as most people don't really know what is going on with their populations. I have a question; is your herd suffering due to that .48 fawn recruitment number? Are your numbers steadily dropping? Or is it at a steady and healthy level? What I'm getting at is; are you at a healthy carrying capacity and maintaining numbers or could your ecology hold more deer? Nature usually finds a way for checks and balances, maybe the yotes have things balanced well and nature won't have to bring in disease of malnutrition to find that balance. Not trying to criticize or question what you are doing, just looking at the whole pic and wondering if it's really bad or not. Like I said in an above post, I find it interesting what is happening in other parts of the country.
 
Swamp, it sounds like you study your herd rather well! Congrats on that as most people don't really know what is going on with their populations. I have a question; is your herd suffering due to that .48 fawn recruitment number? Are your numbers steadily dropping? Or is it at a steady and healthy level? What I'm getting at is; are you at a healthy carrying capacity and maintaining numbers or could your ecology hold more deer? Nature usually finds a way for checks and balances, maybe the yotes have things balanced well and nature won't have to bring in disease of malnutrition to find that balance. Not trying to criticize or question what you are doing, just looking at the whole pic and wondering if it's really bad or not. Like I said in an above post, I find it interesting what is happening in other parts of the country.

It depends on who you ask. If you asked our G&F, they would probably say the herd density is either still a little too high or just where it needs to be. And to their credit - our annual statewide harvest numbers have been remarkably consistent over the past five or six years. However, in my local area, we are way down on numbers. I would guess we have, conservatively, 50% of the deer we had eight or ten years ago - and they were never overpopulated. We used to consistently have several older bucks in the herd -but with the decline in deer numbers, there are now very few older bucks. We averaged killing at least one 125” deer off our place every year. We have not killed one in four years. In my part of the state, those of us who have deer, have them because we are so very conservative with our harvest. We have killed one doe off our 300 acres in five years. We average killing two bucks a year. We love deer meat and killing deer - the anticipation, the tracking, the comraderie around the skinning pole, the preparation of the meat, the cooking and eating - are all major reasons for hunting. And the money spent of land and improvements and then the four of us that hunt my land harvest two deer per year can make you second guess what you are doing. I promise - coyotes take more than two deer per year off my place. Twn years ago, in my state, we had fawn recruitment numbers of .8 fawns per doe. It has fallen to .48 - as has fawn recruitment all across the south.

All that to say - no, coyotes are not helping the situation - they are making it worse. Our g&f could lower the doe harvest regulations - but that has not happened. So those of us who like to see deer will continue to not shoot does.
 
It depends on who you ask. If you asked our G&F, they would probably say the herd density is either still a little too high or just where it needs to be. And to their credit - our annual statewide harvest numbers have been remarkably consistent over the past five or six years. However, in my local area, we are way down on numbers. I would guess we have, conservatively, 50% of the deer we had eight or ten years ago - and they were never overpopulated. We used to consistently have several older bucks in the herd -but with the decline in deer numbers, there are now very few older bucks. We averaged killing at least one 125” deer off our place every year. We have not killed one in four years. In my part of the state, those of us who have deer, have them because we are so very conservative with our harvest. We have killed one doe off our 300 acres in five years. We average killing two bucks a year. We love deer meat and killing deer - the anticipation, the tracking, the comraderie around the skinning pole, the preparation of the meat, the cooking and eating - are all major reasons for hunting. And the money spent of land and improvements and then the four of us that hunt my land harvest two deer per year can make you second guess what you are doing. I promise - coyotes take more than two deer per year off my place. Twn years ago, in my state, we had fawn recruitment numbers of .8 fawns per doe. It has fallen to .48 - as has fawn recruitment all across the south.

All that to say - no, coyotes are not helping the situation - they are making it worse. Our g&f could lower the doe harvest regulations - but that has not happened. So those of us who like to see deer will continue to not shoot does.

If I was in that situation I would be all over those yotes too! I would focus trapping efforts in May, June, and July. Kill those mating pairs right before they have pups, or right afterwards. Let the pups die in the den, or trap them when they first come out. You won't find a more "trap stupid" yote than a pup or an adult taking care of pups.
 
If I was in that situation I would be all over those yotes too! I would focus trapping efforts in May, June, and July. Kill those mating pairs right before they have pups, or right afterwards. Let the pups die in the den, or trap them when they first come out. You won't find a more "trap stupid" yote than a pup or an adult taking care of pups.
It is illegal in our state to kill/trap coyotes in May and June. It is almost like our g&f wants the coyotes to kill the fawns.
 
It would be interesting to see the difference in coyote pics when you have a resident breeding pair with a den compared to no resident coyotes. Will the residents patrol their territory and keep the wanders ran off? You'll never have no coyotes unless everyone in the neighborhood hits them at the same time. As I have said we have plenty of deer in my part of the world (even with the mass killings for CWD testing). I would say at least 1/3 of my does raise twins. It is very rare to see a mature doe without a fawn in the fall. It would be interesting to know what the differences are in different regions that effect predation. I am sure between the coyotes and the bobcats we loose a few but in a high ag area every doe raising fawns would not be good for business!

We can't trap during fawn drop either. You can shoot I coyote whenever you want but trapping ends in Feb. I'd really like to trap coons and possums during turkey season!
 
It would be interesting to see the difference in coyote pics when you have a resident breeding pair with a den compared to no resident coyotes. Will the residents patrol their territory and keep the wanders ran off? You'll never have no coyotes unless everyone in the neighborhood hits them at the same time. As I have said we have plenty of deer in my part of the world (even with the mass killings for CWD testing). I would say at least 1/3 of my does raise twins. It is very rare to see a mature doe without a fawn in the fall. It would be interesting to know what the differences are in different regions that effect predation. I am sure between the coyotes and the bobcats we loose a few but in a high ag area every doe raising fawns would not be good for business!

We can't trap during fawn drop either. You can shoot I coyote whenever you want but trapping ends in Feb. I'd really like to trap coons and possums during turkey season!

I can trap a couple coyotes off that land and I might go two or three months before I get a picture of another. Even though I still hear coyotes in the area - it is like they fear getting near my place after I kill a couple and leave them hanging some where. Just like hanging crows in my garden - they stop eating my corn. Too bad the coons and hogs don't get the same idea. I have never known of a coyote den on my land - they probably no better.

I am definitely not anti coyote - just during Apr, May, and June - when we cant kill them. I have a serious hog problem - and I believe that coyotes take a number of young pigs. I have heard they will also kill and feed on coons. I don't know about that. I have put game cameras on a number of coon I have killed and never got a picture of a coyote coming around a dead coon. They will feed on dead hogs.

And I think as far as coyotes and deer go - it is all about your existing deer population. If you have plenty of deer and are commonly seeing twins and most of your does have fawns - then you probably don't have a coyote problem. When you rarely see twin fawns and over half your does do not have fawns - then you probably have coyotes eating your fawns - something is definitely killing them.

And coyotes do take turkeys - especially hen turkeys on the nest in the spring. Coons destroy a lot of nests - but at least they don't kill the hen.
 
I believe that they keep their territory and kind of keep strays out. When I'm hunting a lot I end up getting to know the local yotes. I'll see the same pair come through on a semi regular basis, or watch a loner bed on a hillside every morning. By the end of the season I'm convinced I'm seeing the same yotes time and again and I seldom see a "stranger" come through. I don't shoot yotes when I'm hunting, just let them walk and enjoy watching them pounce on mice. The only one's I shoot are from the house... when they are in the yard it's time to start taking shots. Maybe taking out the locals would allow more younger yotes to come in and be more aggressive. I don't know...
 
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