combating grasses organically

Discussion in 'Food Plots for Wildlife' started by Jon, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Jon

    Jon Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Tully, NY
    Hardiness Zone:
    5
    3-4 years ago I remember making a concoction of vinegar (I cant remember what the acid content was at the time) and salt and sprayed unwanted plants in my flower beds. I cant remember the exact outcome, but I do remember some plants dying, and I suspect I applied on a hot day in july or august. I was recently considering this as I do not want to spray gly on my plot in my yard.

    So a few days ago I was checking my beehive in my yard and notice that in a few select areas where the buckwheat is near the hive and is less progressive I have a plethora of grasses coming in, in other spots the canopy and density of the buckwheat is great enough nothing has grown underneath. The buckwheat will likely fully ripen in the next 2-3 weeks or so..... so in the advent off trying to stay away spraying gly I have really been debating what to do.

    My plan originally was to roller crimp this year and spread seed before crimping, which should line up with a forthcoming rain... well because I'm dealing with grasses and plan on planting a turnips, beetsand radish, I know my germination time will be a bit slower and to outcompete these grasses will be tough... since this is my first roller crimping exercise I am debating that I should spray something like a vinegar/salt mix to try and eliminate grasses (after crimping)... or should I crimp the buckwheat now and not get a mature plant (I'm ok with a bit of reseeding in either scenario) then let it die then in 3 weeks cultivate (by tilling) the dead material (cutting up the grass) then planting mid to late august, then hoping the new mix out lasts the grass as the cool season sets in? I was not planning on cultivating again until next years rotation into clover/rye combo...so id like some input here.
     
    catscratch likes this.
  2. Jon

    Jon Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Tully, NY
    Hardiness Zone:
    5
    I could add rape to the mix for competition purposes...just an additional thought
     
  3. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    Glyphosate is just about the safest herbicide out there, when properly used. There are a lot of herbicides I don't like. Spraying near dark when your bees are back in your hive, is an option.

    Too much salt in your mix can change the salinity of the soil and create problems for the plants you want to grow. If you have a true roller crimper, it will break up the stems and make the plants "bleed" to death, so you have nothing to worry about, other than anything that germinates afterwards. Roller crimp, when it's the "right time" for you.
     
  4. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    The purpose of using a roller/crimper is so that you don't have to till and don't have to use a herbicide. Broadcast your seed and roller/crimp everything down on top.
     
  5. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    Weed Wiper 5.jpg If you are using something like a cultipacker (vs a roller/crimper), buy a weed wiper and use that on the front of your tractor or 4 wheeler, along with a 50/50 solution of glyphosate. No spray mist and very economical.

    Glyphosate has been around and been used for probably close to 60 years.
     
  6. Jon

    Jon Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Tully, NY
    Hardiness Zone:
    5
    FarmerD to your point that is exactly why I decided to build a crimper vs using my tiller. None of your opinions on gly seem absurdly wrong to me, although I did make the agreement with my wife I wouldn't spray in our yard and to your point considering the bees as well (good idea on the after dark spraying)... first I have seen of the weed wiper... pretty cool idea..I may have to reengage the discussion with my wife... it doesn't help that close friends are toxicologist and study chemicals for a living and have her ear.
     
    FarmerD likes this.
  7. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    Millions upon millions of gallons of glyphosate have been sprayed by the American farmer. My relatives have sprayed thousands, including myself and we haven't started to glow, yet. I wouldn't drink the stuff, but use it according to the label. A weed wiper, merely swipes and applies, like a paint brush, the glyphosate/water mix onto the plant. Doesn't go airborne.

    Glyphosate is sprayed on corn, soybeans, alflafa, sugarbeets ...... what kind of cereal did your wife have this morning?

    In California, asprin and sawdust are considered carcinogens, along with many other things. Taken in massive doses, I suppose anything will do harm to you. I could be wrong, but I try to apply common sense to what I read in the news.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/nationa...he-herbicide-in-roundup-does-not-cause-cancer
     
  8. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    I'll just add, that grass (just talking about grass now), is very easy to kill with 1 quart per acre or less, for spraying and if you use a weed wiper (weed wick), you'll probably use a lot less.
     
  9. Jon

    Jon Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Tully, NY
    Hardiness Zone:
    5
    roger that on its mass usage, but you cant blame anyone for wanting not to use a manmade chemical IMO. The scientific studies have proven that limited exposure isn't harmful (generally speaking)... I like the weed wiper idea again.

    I'm not pushing any of this but here are 2 good links to websites for research for chemicals that I have used to understand things a bit more.

    https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/htmlgen?HSDB

    http://www.inchem.org/
     
    FarmerD likes this.
  10. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    Not disagreeing with you a bit ...... I've tried to cut my sugar intake down too! I use the weed wiper on 12 acres of food plots and use less than a gallon, to do the job. Always better to be safe than sorry!
     
  11. Jon

    Jon Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    Tully, NY
    Hardiness Zone:
    5
    haha, I wish I could take down my sugar intake... summers in Central New York require ice cream... that's all we have for good weather around here.

    Maybe you explained in another post but this weed wick is cool... do you have a post on it rationalizing why you went this route? I watched a brief video on it.

    Also, in my case when would use a weed wick, considering my buckwheat is probably 55 days old and roughly 36 inches high, and the plan is to crimp to kill the buckwheat in 2-3 wks? My goal is to kill the grasses obviously that exist below and near the edges of my plot (and within as well in some weak spots). Can I weed wick the buckwheat that low with your atv example with the volume of buckwheat I have? This would naturally kill both plants essentially.. likely apply less gly on either with the volume of material...
     
  12. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    I have 27 food plots over 810 acres, with plots of land separated by several miles and only a well pump, at the camp. I live 2+ hours away from the camp and we have 14 club members. Trying to corral someone to come down to help and haul water for me, was a chore in and of itself. 12 acres @ 20 gallons of water per acre = 240 gallons of water or 10 loads of water in my atv sprayer. A lot of water and a lot of fill ups and travel back to camp. Plus, at 1 quart per acre of glyphosate, I would use 3 gallons. Glyphosate is cheap, but ...

    My biggest battle, on all my plots is grass. Grass is easy to kill but because our properties are timber stands with gas lines, the seed bank of grass comes back every year. It's always a batter. Killing grass with a roller crimper will not be easy, because like cutting your grass at home, it just comes right back. In fact, you will have limited success with the grass.

    On 12 acres of food plots, I used about 1 gallon of glyphosate and one gallon of water, traveling at about 5 mph. I bought my weed wiper/wick, ready made and just welded up the frame to fit the 4 wheeler.

    Where you don't have grass, you can choose whatever date you want to broadcast your seed and give it a try! Broadcast, then crimp, no need for glyphosate.

    Where you have grass, you can (if you decide to buy one) broad cast your seed, use the weed wiper and roller crimp behind. Again, just do that, whichever date you originally planned. Both ways will kill the buckwheat, likely.

    The "volume you have?" Is it anything like this?

    WW3.JPG
     
    dogghr, Triple C and Baker like this.
  13. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    This is what it looked like 3 weeks later. It let the clover come right thru, and I didn't roll it or anything. Deer and turkey are all over in it.


    WW2.JPG
     
    dogghr and Triple C like this.
  14. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
    This is where I bought mine. And you can run any herbicide thru it, if that is something you opt for. 12 acres took me just over 3 hours to do, so it was a big time saver for me, even traveling at 5 mph. "Spraying" 12 acres, with my 25 gallon sprayer would likely take a day.

    Clean up is easy. Not like a sprayer.

    https://www.agrisupply.com/hitch-mount-for-wick-applicator/p/109190/
     
  15. FarmerD

    FarmerD Active Member

    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    230
    Location:
    Georgia
  16. MarkDarvin

    MarkDarvin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    550
    Location:
    Fordville, ND
    Hardiness Zone:
    3
    I haven't had a chance to try this fully yet, but here's my take on it...

    Weeds are an expression of what's missing in the soil. You guys have heard me reference my "clover in your lawn/grass in your clover" idea. Too much deviation from a natural balance of carbon and nitrogen in the soil, and the soil will balance itself out by growing something to rectify it, or take advantage of the imbalance.

    I'm working on trying to short circuit grasses by putting a grass there before the grass comes. This is winter rye. It may not be perfect, but it should consume the excess nitrogen put out by the clover and starve, or at least slow down, the grass that would come after the soil warms up. The beauty of rye is that you can later mow-kill it to release your clover again, and it'll leave a heavy mat of duff to further tie up N and keep the clover rich in excess carbon.

    That's my theory anyway.
     
    dogghr and rusty1034 like this.
  17. jsasker007

    jsasker007 Member

    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    36
    A crop that will canopy and smother the competition is another option. I'm gonna try this on one part of my plots that grasses are too thick(I don't want to use any chemicals). Brassicas will be broadcast thick to try and smother everything else--then when the deer start thinning the brassicas I'm going with the rye and clover bit.
     
  18. DIY

    DIY Member

    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    SE Tennessee
    I broke down and pulled the trigger on the ATV weed wick. I think (and hope) it’s going to be a game changer for me, especially with my perennial plots. I’m looking forward to killing some grasses, marestail and pigweed with it.
     
  19. dogghr

    dogghr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,631
    Likes Received:
    2,323
    Location:
    Monroe County, WV
    And a good theory. I have overseeded WR into perennial clover and expired brassica plot each fall for years. Provides great winter/spring food, controls weeds and grasses, creates great fawning cover May/June, and dies off on its own without me doing anything. And if autocorrect changes my overseed word one more time I'm going to put a 357 thru the computer screen.
     
  20. MarkDarvin

    MarkDarvin Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    722
    Likes Received:
    550
    Location:
    Fordville, ND
    Hardiness Zone:
    3
    Those are the things we know. Those are the things I yearn to discover why.
     

Share This Page

Members Online Now

  1. 144,
  2. catscratch,
  3. Jason Broom,
  4. Jack Terpack,
  5. THE LLC,
  6. suburbhunter
Total: 90 (members: 8, guests: 72, robots: 10)
(moderators are listed in blue)