Clover basics....

[David]

Sometimes it helps me to tell a story as i understand it in order to ask a question. Consider this entire "story" a question. Please critic.

Clover is a cool season food source, its generally planted in the late summer, fall, or frost seeded in the winter. It really shines in the spring, it can do well in the fall, with adequate rain, but the spring is when the pounds per acre really stack up. It is commonly planted with nurse crops (wheat, rye, oats) to give it a chance to germinate while the nurse crop grows quickly and takes some of the grazing pressure off. Often 2 species of clover are planted together. the main reason for this is that they may begin to mature/grow at different times in the spring. For instance crimson clover does great in early spring, but matures very quickly. (Right about now mine is done.) For the most part, in the deep south, crimson clover is going to die and produce seed and it will not continue its growth through the summer, for this reason i consider crimson clover an "annual". It will however leave plenty of seed behind for the future fall. Arrow-leaf clover is often planted as a companion to crimson clover (its what i planted). it will begin its spring push much later (30-45 days) and while the crimson is seeding out, the arrow-leaf begins to fill the gap. unlike the crimson clover, the arrow leaf can survive a southern summer, in the deep south, it is a true perennial.

summer is a time for weeds in clover plots, so be prepared to battle them. clover growth can be stimulated via mowing a few times in the summer. Never mow clover when its very hot or dry, it cant handle the stress.

often food plotters add other annuals to the mix, a common annual addition is chicory.

Come fall, the arrow-leaf (again thats what i used) can experience new growth and vigor. its common practice to top sow grains and an "annual" clover such as crimson in order to begin the cycle again.




so is this about right? for those of you in the deep south, please tell me what you do....and why you do it.

my plots did great up till about a few weeks ago, the arrow-leaf did not do well, and the weeds....oh the weeds.

the arrow-leaf that is growing is doing well, and i know spread 50/50 (crimson/arrow-leaf), but its just that there is not very much of it. i dont see how its possible for me to keep this crop through the summer.

 

[Charlieyca]

100% correct on the crimson clover and cereal grain nurse crop. I use it in areas where I have not planted before as they both germinate on a wide variety of soils and help add organic matter to the new plot. My crimson planted last september was full and beautiful a month ago, but even with timely spring rains it died back after going to seed. I am leaving it standing until fall when I throw and mow over that area and hope to get some free crimson clover seed from that area.
My white clover was much slower to develop and is still bright green and full. It will go through a summer lull where it dies back a little and does put on new growth, but fall rains and cooler temps send it back into growth mode.

 

[Baker]

In La. arrow leaf behave more like crimson as you describe it. By mid to late summer it has bloomed and gone to seed with the plants dying out. However also like crimson it is a vigorous reseeder and comes back the following spring from the seed bank.

I frequently use arrow leaf in 'hunting plots'. Plant small grains, crimson and arrow leaf as you have done. Do nothing again to the field till late summer when everything has died out. [ Also makes great fawning territory ] Then mow, spray and drill small grains back in. The crimson and arrow leaf naturally reseed. Low maintenance, highly effective.

 

[shawn cox]

David, I am in South Georgia, you should try using medium red clover in your mix also. It lasts up till late summer. It matures later than arrow leaf for me. Medium Red is a deer magnet on my land, they are hammering it right now and it is still growing strong. I use Crimson(it is done for me right now and is drying out), Medium Red(it is actively growing great right now), arrow leaf(it is starting to mature out on me some), landino and durrana white clovers(they are growing good for me right now also(slightly shaded areas). I also add a little chicory in with each planting. I use WR as a nurse crop (about 40 lbs and acre) but I also leave it standing and do not cut it. I let it mature out because for me it helps keep the weeds down and the clover grows great for me in it. I also feel like the standing rye helps keep that hot sun from baking the clover. My clover got up to my waist in some of my plots. The WR is drying out and the deer just walk through it to feed plus I think they feel safe grazing in it and it provides fawning cover. I will cut it about September and reseed my crimson and Medium red.

 

[THE LLC]

Arrowleaf is not a perennial anywhere. It is a heavy-seeding annual though. It will survive on into August but by September it's done. But man does it make the seed---if deer don't eat all the blooms (which they will). Good thing with arrowleaf is as it gets stemmier, the stems maintain high protein and digestibility levels and deer will hammer it.

 

[FarmerD]

I'm with Shawn Cox ...... Add Medium Red (biennial 2 year clover) to your clover mix and your plots should last till September

 

[Baker]

I also agree with the addition of red clover. I use it extensively and heavy usage. However I do find the arrow leaf to last longer from reseeding than the red which I tend to plant some every year.

 

[David]

Fellas, thanks so much. .....


I am going to reply in length later. I appreciate the responses.

 

[David]

First question that comes to mind.....who has successfully, in the deep south, had a true perennial clover? What was the species? And here is the big question.....was it actually providing any serious nutrition in the late summer?

My hopes are that my summer beams/peas will grow pods and that this will leave food on the table in late july/august/early September. Last year's drought crushed my ground food sources (natural and plots). Fruit/acorns/chestnuts were the only food source I had.

 

[David]

David, I am in South Georgia, you should try using medium red clover in your mix also. It lasts up till late summer. It matures later than arrow leaf for me. Medium Red is a deer magnet on my land, they are hammering it right now and it is still growing strong. I use Crimson(it is done for me right now and is drying out), Medium Red(it is actively growing great right now), arrow leaf(it is starting to mature out on me some), landino and durrana white clovers(they are growing good for me right now also(slightly shaded areas). I also add a little chicory in with each planting. I use WR as a nurse crop (about 40 lbs and acre) but I also leave it standing and do not cut it. I let it mature out because for me it helps keep the weeds down and the clover grows great for me in it. I also feel like the standing rye helps keep that hot sun from baking the clover. My clover got up to my waist in some of my plots. The WR is drying out and the deer just walk through it to feed plus I think they feel safe grazing in it and it provides fawning cover. I will cut it about September and reseed my crimson and Medium red.

Awesome information....thanks

 

[David]

Arrowleaf is not a perennial anywhere. It is a heavy-seeding annual though. It will survive on into August but by September it's done. But man does it make the seed---if deer don't eat all the blooms (which they will). Good thing with arrowleaf is as it gets stemmier, the stems maintain high protein and digestibility levels and deer will hammer it.

Thanks. U have any clover that makes it multiple years? While doing so, is there any nutrition provided during the late summer or is it struggling to make it till cooler weather?

 

[shawn cox]

I know several people that manage property in Alabama and South Carolina who grow awesome perennial clover plots and the deer love them. Not sure of the varieties they use. I have landino and durana that are doing good and my neighbor has a plot of landino that comes back every year. My hope is that come fall I can cut my clover and the crimson will reseed itself for the fall but I will throw out a little to go with it. We had a drought last year when I planted so nothing came up until we got rain in late December but everything is doing real good. This is the most good my deer have had to eat during the late spring early summer. I am going to start two new 1 acre plots this fall that I want one to be patriot landino and one that is durana. I am making these some test plots to see how long it will truly last but I am working on getting ph right before I attempt it. My other plots have it all mixed in together


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[Baker]

First question that comes to mind.....who has successfully, in the deep south, had a true perennial clover? What was the species? And here is the big question.....was it actually providing any serious nutrition in the late summer?

My hopes are that my summer beams/peas will grow pods and that this will leave food on the table in late july/august/early September. Last year's drought crushed my ground food sources (natural and plots). Fruit/acorns/chestnuts were the only food source I had.

All depends on the weather. With just a little timely rain Durana will last year round. AS I always put chicory in clover plots deer utilization can last all summer. That said clearly peas and beans are preferred and do better late summer. Something to give strong consideration to is joint vetch. It can become a reseeding annual, lasts till frost and is absolutely a go to plant late summer till frost. Plant in the spring and with proper care fields can last years. I usually mix alyce clover in with it as their growth characteristics are similar. Deer love the joint vetch [ deer vetch ]!!!

AS a side note for joint vetch the biggest deer I have taken off my farm lived in a vetch field the last 2 summers of his 7 yr life. { The biggest deer I have ever grown on my farm lived summers in a Durana clover field.}

 

[David]

thanks baker....and to the others who replied....here is what my ultimate question is.....


are the efforts to have a multiyear clover plot in the deep south worth it? why are we trying to span the late summer months? it is to save time and money? or is it intended to actually provide calories in the 60 day window from august 1st to late september? As the years pass and as i get more experience, i will learn, however i am seriously wondering why i dont plan on simply replanting every year. (right now my clover plots total 2 acres, and in the future i will probably max out at 4 acres). The only thing that i can think of that might be different for me is that my clover plots are in the middle of large fields. thus weeds are always going to be a major problem. if they were tucked into firebreaks along a pine plantation, there are simply less weeds to seed out.

the drought last year completely changed the pattern of my deer herd. If you have followed my property tour thread, you know i have nearly 20 acres of old field growth....they love it. its a free natural food plot. but in the south, the 2 biggest stress periods are late winter and late summer. late winter is usually easy to supplement with good clover plots. the nurse crops are available, as is some clover, and rain is rarely a problem. however later summer can be brutal. My deer changed from field to forest in an instant. from september 15th till december, i saw maybe 3 deer in my fields. they hammered the acorns, chestnuts, and fruit trees.

I am searching for a clover that is an actual perennial. I hope it actually provides calories in late summer, however thats not the real goal. The real goal is simply that it at least be alive, so that it is well ahead of were seed would be if i had replanted. then we roll into the early fall with a viable food source already established.

if i cant get it to live through the summer, i am very hesitant to trust that the seed bank is full of clover only. i would have bad dreams thinking about all of the thousands of hidden cool season seeds waiting to compete with the clover. So i am likely to nuke the whole thing and start fresh.

What i have learned from yall in this thread is that both arrowleaf and crimson are not going to live through the summer, but both are heavy re-seeders. I am going to add a few more clovers to the mix this year (durana, ladino, medium red), and add some chicory. I am going to leave my cover crop standing longer for weed control and heat control and because they will eat the seed heads (i am an idiot and i killed mine in april to "help the clover"). I am also going to consider a separate joint vetch plot.

 

[FarmerD]

The summer months are high stress periods for your deer, for native vegetation and your food plots. Any additional food you can provide is of benefit. My pure Durana plots can go dormant in the heat of the summer, however I have switched from planting pure stands of it, to simply planting the perimeter of the plots, maybe 10' to 20' wide, where, for me, it gets heavy shade (timber properties). The perennial clovers will do better in those areas. I have Durana clover that was planted in 2008, still kicking!

My medium red clover seems to outperform the perennial clovers in those spots, in the heat of the summer, however, I do replant it every year. Whitetail Institute clovers are also a consideration for you. Where I have medium red clover, now, I will be leaving strips of it this year, in case we have another severe drought. Just hedging my bets!

 

[shawn cox]

My goal this year is for my Medium Red to feed through the summer. I didn't have it planted last year so this will be a learning experience for me on seeing how well it actually does do. I will not plant spring and summer again, to iffy with rain and hot weather here. Best bang for me is planting in the fall, but this past fall I planted with the goal in mind of having my plots have food readily available all year. So far so good, I am eager to see how they manage over the next couple of months.

 

[Baker]

thanks baker....and to the others who replied....here is what my ultimate question is.....


are the efforts to have a multiyear clover plot in the deep south worth it? why are we trying to span the late summer months? it is to save time and money? or is it intended to actually provide calories in the 60 day window from august 1st to late september? As the years pass and as i get more experience, i will learn, however i am seriously wondering why i dont plan on simply replanting every year. (right now my clover plots total 2 acres, and in the future i will probably max out at 4 acres). The only thing that i can think of that might be different for me is that my clover plots are in the middle of large fields. thus weeds are always going to be a major problem. if they were tucked into firebreaks along a pine plantation, there are simply less weeds to seed out.

the drought last year completely changed the pattern of my deer herd. If you have followed my property tour thread, you know i have nearly 20 acres of old field growth....they love it. its a free natural food plot. but in the south, the 2 biggest stress periods are late winter and late summer. late winter is usually easy to supplement with good clover plots. the nurse crops are available, as is some clover, and rain is rarely a problem. however later summer can be brutal. My deer changed from field to forest in an instant. from september 15th till december, i saw maybe 3 deer in my fields. they hammered the acorns, chestnuts, and fruit trees.

I am searching for a clover that is an actual perennial. I hope it actually provides calories in late summer, however thats not the real goal. The real goal is simply that it at least be alive, so that it is well ahead of were seed would be if i had replanted. then we roll into the early fall with a viable food source already established.

if i cant get it to live through the summer, i am very hesitant to trust that the seed bank is full of clover only. i would have bad dreams thinking about all of the thousands of hidden cool season seeds waiting to compete with the clover. So i am likely to nuke the whole thing and start fresh.

What i have learned from yall in this thread is that both arrowleaf and crimson are not going to live through the summer, but both are heavy re-seeders. I am going to add a few more clovers to the mix this year (durana, ladino, medium red), and add some chicory. I am going to leave my cover crop standing longer for weed control and heat control and because they will eat the seed heads (i am an idiot and i killed mine in april to "help the clover"). I am also going to consider a separate joint vetch plot.

There are a lot of moving parts in your post. I approach nutrition from this point of view. I want my deer on 100% peak nutrition 365 days a year. To accomplish that requires diverse plantings. I have well over 150 acres of plots but at least half are in clover. The preponderance of my clover fields are a combination of Durana and medium red clover [ the exact cultivar tends to change with availability ] with chicory added. Clover is the backbone of the program and with 'average ' weather they usually last all summer. Not only is summer a stress period in the south it is when fawns are born and nursing and antlers are growing. In many ways this is THE most critical time for the whitetail manager that is interested in growing quality deer

I also plant several large fields in combinations that include peas and beans as well as lots of other stuff. Summer annuals are harder to grow, generally require more experience and better equipment and weeds are always an issue. I grow them because I can and they are heavily utilized. But if I had to choose I would go with clovers.

To round out the picture I feed protein pellets from late January thru August. In spite of all the fresh growing crops pellet consumption is very high mid to late summer. This is because it is the peak nutritional demand time of year for deer. They can be seen eating almost any time of day what with fawns dragging the females down and antlers in full growth.

I share all this to approach the question you ask..." is it worth it?" Depends on your goals. What I can say is that it is absolutely possible to have actively growing clover [ and vetch, peas, beans, chicory, sunn hemp--whats your budget ] all summer. And it can have a profound impact on the health of your herd.

 

[THE LLC]

Thanks. U have any clover that makes it multiple years? While doing so, is there any nutrition provided during the late summer or is it struggling to make it till cooler weather?

Oh yeah, I have durana that has lasted for YEARS. But all my re-seeders--arrowleaf, crimson, and one plot of ball clover--al come back every year.

 

[shawn cox]

Oh yeah, I have durana that has lasted for YEARS. But all my re-seeders--arrowleaf, crimson, and one plot of ball clover--al come back every year.

That's good to know. I am hoping mine will do the same. I am however prepared to reseed if I have too.

 

[David]

Farmer D, Shawn Cox, Baker, LLC,

thanks!

I think most of my problem is between my ears....its a perception problem. i have read too many books and i am thinking academically. As much as i want to read, learn and master plottting....its going to take me some personal trial and error.