camera theft

[Buckly]

There was an idea once that if you started a business on your property like hunts for sale and set a price for those hunts then any trespassers you caught hunting could be charged with trespass and also theft of service. Lets say you were charging $4000 for a hunt on your place through your business. Maybe you just haven't had any clients yet. Hunting trespassers would be stealing from your business and would put more teeth into the trespass charge. Or maybe some form of this theory.

 

[Elkaddict]

Buckley, you are correct. If you have an established outfitting business, I've seen courts asses damages for lost revenue but only where an animal was taken. Years ago, I saw multiple trespassers assessed with 8-10k awards. This was on top of the criminal fines in a similar amount. New York's penalties for trespass are simply no deterrent at all.

 

[jteeen]

The problem is you can't detain them, or take their property (guns), or set traps that might hurt them. You have less of a duty to a trespasser than an invited guest, but it's still there. Hard to keep them there until the police decide to come.

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[Buckly]

Buckley, you are correct. If you have an established outfitting business, I've seen courts asses damages for lost revenue but only where an animal was taken. Years ago, I saw multiple trespassers assessed with 8-10k awards. This was on top of the criminal fines in a similar amount. New York's penalties for trespass are simply no deterrent at all.

IF IF IF you can get the police to write a ticket. Hard to do even with what one considers good evidence. Lets say you get a picture of a trespasser on your phone. Will that be enough for them to write a ticket? Probably not because they will just deny the location of the picture. It's almost as if the police would have to witness the trespass and I can guarantee they're not going to get there fast enough or care to walk back in the woods. Even if they admit to you on video, can you use that in court? Maybe but, they would have to be advised they were being recorded. Even if they steal a cam and you have a picture of them, is that enough for the police to get a search warrant? Again probably not. I know some cases against trespasser's that have been successful but, first offense it's probably just court costs. I had kids riding 4 wheelers once. Witness them in person several times. They had a well worn trail. They took a tree stand and a camera. Called the cops. They went and talked to them. Cop said they claimed they didn't do it and that was the end of the investigation. Blockades and fences had to fix that problem but still lost the stuff.

 

[Elkaddict]

I've got commitments from the DEC to write a ticket for trespass if I can identify them. My place is far more than legally posted. The prosecution is entirely dependent on photos of trespassers. They can't deny that's their image. Most folks will stupidly claim they didn't know the property was posted. The problem is, with signs every 100' it's not possible to claim that. In any event, once I identify the perp, the trespassing ticket is the least of their legal woes.

 

[catscratch]

There was an idea once that if you started a business on your property like hunts for sale and set a price for those hunts then any trespassers you caught hunting could be charged with trespass and also theft of service. Lets say you were charging $4000 for a hunt on your place through your business. Maybe you just haven't had any clients yet. Hunting trespassers would be stealing from your business and would put more teeth into the trespass charge. Or maybe some form of this theory.

I've posted this before. I met a guy who had posted signs stating the land was leased for hunting for x dollars per day. They caught a poacher and he won the lease money for when the poacher was on his place.

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[CTM1]

As I was driving my quad down a power line I caught a glimpse of orange up in the woods on a 10 acre piece I own about a mile from the house. I decided to drive up and confront the guy, he was from a gun club a few parcels down. When I told him that he was trespassing he said I'm sorry, but he he made no motion that he was going to move. I explained to him that his club owned fifteen acres in the other direction as well as having access to thousands of acres of state land. He again said he was sorry but made no effort to move. I finally told him that he could continue to hunt as long as he paid me $480. Of course he looked at me like I had two heads. I said I paid for this property so I could use it for my own purposes and for others to use it for their own purposes and and the $480 was the annual taxes.

 

[Elkaddict]

CTM, the one area where there is a little teeth in NY's regime is if you ask someone to leave and they refuse: the statute authorized loss of hunting privileges for a year. I know it's not much, but most Fudds would feel more threatened by that than a $75 fine and the unlikely chance of jail.

 

[OkieKubota]

As I was driving my quad down a power line I caught a glimpse of orange up in the woods on a 10 acre piece I own about a mile from the house. I decided to drive up and confront the guy, he was from a gun club a few parcels down. When I told him that he was trespassing he said I'm sorry, but he he made no motion that he was going to move. I explained to him that his club owned fifteen acres in the other direction as well as having access to thousands of acres of state land. He again said he was sorry but made no effort to move. I finally told him that he could continue to hunt as long as he paid me $480. Of course he looked at me like I had two heads. I said I paid for this property so I could use it for my own purposes and for others to use it for their own purposes and and the $480 was the annual taxes.

From reading these NY threads I notice there is a lot of trespassing going on and it seems as if you guys have real emboldened trespassers I assume because your laws have no teeth. Here in Oklahoma the guy wouldn't have had orange on and when you finally saw him all camoed out he would have been hauling tale to get across the line...luckily I only saw one guy after season who "may" have been on us but he was across the fence when I first saw him so not sure. I know he didn't enter the plot that was nearby as I would have had pictures of him...

 

[CTM1]

From reading these NY threads I notice there is a lot of trespassing going on and it seems as if you guys have real emboldened trespassers I assume because your laws have no teeth. Here in Oklahoma the guy wouldn't have had orange on and when you finally saw him all camoed out he would have been hauling tale to get across the line...luckily I only saw one guy after season who "may" have been on us but he was across the fence when I first saw him so not sure. I know he didn't enter the plot that was nearby as I would have had pictures of him...

I recently read an article and for all I remember it could have been on this site that in my area Delaware County in NYS their is approx one hunter per 41 acres. I know the mountain that I live on is broken up into very small lots, ranging from 1 acre to 105, with the overwhelming majority being under ten. Most are down state people who come up to hunt and think nothing of trespassing whenever and wherever they want. Heck a few years ago I had my neighbor arrested for shooting an illegal buck in my driveway. Guy comes in from another state one time a year to hunt and figures it is a free for all, he was wrong this time. This is why I am happy to have the 150 acre parcel as it is surrounded by large land owners so I just do not foresee an issue with trespassers, road hunters yes, but not trespassers.

My neighbor that has the 105 acres parcel I mentioned above use to sacrifice his opening morning just driving around to make sure people were not trespassing on him. The gun club that I had an issue with as mentioned in my previous post above use to sneak onto him so they could walk up his logging road to get to state land instead of working their way up through the woods. If it even came to that for me I think would just sell and seek life elsewhere.

Quick story about how far some loons will go to try and lay claim to what is not theirs. My cousin has been hunting this small tract of federal land out on eastern Long Island that a buddy of his turned him onto. He has been hunting there for the last couple of years without issue. Well this year he hunts the property a few times and again with no issues, but the next time he goes out the road frontage is posted with your typical style posted signs. My cousin is not the brightest bulb so he falls for it, but before he leaves he calls me and explains the situation. I quickly explained to him that the Feds do not put up hand written signs, and certainly not signs that are devoid of specific details. He was still to nervous to enter as he does not want to get jammed up with his job. The next day he makes a few calls to the DEC and finally gets a hold of the DEC officer most familiar with that area and he makes a few calls to the feds. Sure enough turns out it was just some hunter looking to lay claim to the area and to dissuade anyone else he put up his own signs.

 

[MattJK]

Makes my blood boil just reading the stories!

Another landowner I casually met at a bar had trespassing issues in archery season. He explained that you just had to let them think you're crazy. He claimed shouting with a .357 to the head was quite effective with discharge into the ground adding emphasis. Of course this is likely not legal, and he did live on his land, and did have superior weaponry. He claimed that quickly ended all his problems.

 

[MattJK]

To the OP topic, the point is that sometimes it's good to be known as a paranoid jerk about protecting your private property. Post, publicize, prosecute, persecute...