2017 La. bucks
- Thread starter Baker
- Start date
ng270
Active Member
Great looking deer, Baker. Couldn't help but think of you and some of the other southerners on this forum this past week while in the Baton Rouge area. Try as I might, couldn't spot a deer anywhere, or along the way into and out of LA. Did see a few snakes and armadillos though. The thick low country I saw looked like tough hunting!
Welcome to the sportsman's paradise. Would have been delighted to give you a farm tour as I'm just a couple hours north of B.R. in a lot more habitable terrain.It's a semi tropical jungle down here with super thick woods. Challenging indeed if the deer aren't coming to the openings as visibility in the woods is usually 40-50 yds or less in most places.
La . is blessed to have all of the poisonous snakes plus plenty of other species that can cause heart flutter when stepped on. I can only assume the armadillos were live cause if they were killed roadside they are called dinner.
Was it warm enough for you?
It is kind of odd - I dont live that far north of you in SW Arkansas - and most of our bucks just dont do much after 4.5 years. G&F DMAP data from the south part of the state also confirms that. The first picture is a deer from last year I estimated at 4.5. The second picture is the same deer - I think - from this year. It seems like these bucks here might put on a few sticker points as this one looks to be doing - and might pick up a little mass - but also may start to lose main points after 4.5.The last picture is a deer from last year that I think is 7.5 years old - and as you can see - his antlers have really declined.
Steve Bartylla and I have had the discussion ( debate ) many times about when bucks reach their peak. I believe very strongly that the deer in S. Tx and N. Mexcio 'typically ' reach their peak between 7-10. I along with a lot of very talented managers in that part of the world have all reached the same conclusion based on thousands of observations of different bucks.
There are a couple of qualifiers that are relevant wherever you are:
1) the bucks have to be on a high nutritional plane throughout their lives to peak later in life
2) You can't be removing all the highest quality bucks at younger ages leaving only the lessor quality bucks to get old to have valid observations.
3) Irrespective not all bucks age the same and some peak out earlier than others. Always a toss of the dice with countless variables as to when a deer will peak. Injury, late winter nutrition,weather, intensity of the rut, stress, parasites,alchemy, all fit into the equation.
Regarding the bucks here on my farm in La. I have yet to decide what peak age is but if forced to guess I'd say 6 or 7. We haven't had enough bucks get old yet to be sure. The biggest buck we have taken was 5 but who knows what he could have done later in life. I have noted over the years that the bucks that have the potential to get really big do mature later in life while a lot of the lessor quality bucks just run out of gas younger.Kickers, nontypical points, more mass, sometimes slightly shorter tine length but more points are frequently typical as bucks age. Still I've seen enough improvement at 6 or 7 vs. 5 to form a preliminary opinion.
Another thing I've noticed thru the years is that many times big deer are big when they are little. Occasionally a buck blows up from nondescript to huge but more commonly they start to show potential at 2 or 3. Two of the biggest bucks I ever grew at our ranch were noticed with their first rack and were well over 170" at 3. One ended up 233 at 13 yrs old and the other will be 8 this yr and from what I've seen so far may not see 9.
There are a couple of qualifiers that are relevant wherever you are:
1) the bucks have to be on a high nutritional plane throughout their lives to peak later in life
2) You can't be removing all the highest quality bucks at younger ages leaving only the lessor quality bucks to get old to have valid observations.
3) Irrespective not all bucks age the same and some peak out earlier than others. Always a toss of the dice with countless variables as to when a deer will peak. Injury, late winter nutrition,weather, intensity of the rut, stress, parasites,alchemy, all fit into the equation.
Regarding the bucks here on my farm in La. I have yet to decide what peak age is but if forced to guess I'd say 6 or 7. We haven't had enough bucks get old yet to be sure. The biggest buck we have taken was 5 but who knows what he could have done later in life. I have noted over the years that the bucks that have the potential to get really big do mature later in life while a lot of the lessor quality bucks just run out of gas younger.Kickers, nontypical points, more mass, sometimes slightly shorter tine length but more points are frequently typical as bucks age. Still I've seen enough improvement at 6 or 7 vs. 5 to form a preliminary opinion.
Another thing I've noticed thru the years is that many times big deer are big when they are little. Occasionally a buck blows up from nondescript to huge but more commonly they start to show potential at 2 or 3. Two of the biggest bucks I ever grew at our ranch were noticed with their first rack and were well over 170" at 3. One ended up 233 at 13 yrs old and the other will be 8 this yr and from what I've seen so far may not see 9.
ng270
Active Member
Thanks. I would have loved a tour, but was supervising a group of teenagers on a service trip so couldn't leave 'em. Did some cleanup work leftover from that Aug 2016 mess.
I heard from the locals that roadkilled coon are also 'dinner' there.
And a dutchified Pennsylvanian would say that it was "fierce hot!"
Here's yet another buck from the same joint vetch field with an inline point on his rt side. He is so similar to another buck it took some deciphering to tell them apart. I'll post all 3 here now. As mentioned they are feeding in a joint vetch field, one of my all time favorite summer crops. Last till frost, highly preferred and very nutritious. 
Beautiful bucks.
Baker, do you mind explaining more how joint vetch fits into your summer program? I plan on getting away from pea/bean based plots because the deer eat them too quickly. Arrowleaf clover and chicory get me to August, but I need something to bridge the gap from August to fall plots.
Baker, do you mind explaining more how joint vetch fits into your summer program? I plan on getting away from pea/bean based plots because the deer eat them too quickly. Arrowleaf clover and chicory get me to August, but I need something to bridge the gap from August to fall plots.
Certainly, lots of good things can be said about vetch and it may be just the thing for your program .
The basics: I plant in the spring in soil that that tends to hold moisture better . I often mix vetch with alyce clover as the Alyce handles drier soil better and the 2 have similar growth and management considerations. They both can be planted in crimson clover as it is dying out before the vetch starts growing. vetch is slow to establish in the summer and may not get really growing till mid/late summer but will stay green and actively grazed till frost. It can get 4-6' tall. Often late summer it and chicory are the only game in town. Both vetch and alyce can take very heavy grazing like clover though here at least the deer show a decided preference for vetch..
I can get away with vetch in much smaller fields...2-3 acres or less than peas or beans as my deer have figured beans out and are on them at establishment.Another GREAT thing about vetch at least here in La. is that it is a reseeding annual. I have kept fields going for years simply lightly discing in the spring and maybe running a cultipacker afterwards. Lots of time though the vetch comes back with no disturbance just not as strongly. Both are legumes so inoculation best then no nitrogen required. I spray vetch fields with gly at the last possible minute before they start sprouting in the spring to manage weeds.[ usually late april/early may ] Vetch is one of those crops you just have to tolerate weed growth in though it is very competitive with most weeds. Cleth for the grass. Sometimes I will mow the growing vetch field [ about now] high enough to knock seed heads off as many weeds as possible and while it may cut some of the vetch it is inconsequential.
I have 6 vetch fields scattered evenly around the farm ranging from 1 acre to 4 acres. I will buy 1 bag every year and use to spice up existing fields where needed or start a new spot. Right now I have more activity on the vetch fields than the big bean fields and clover fields though the deer are starting to hit the milo seed heads pretty hard. And no doubt in my mind vetch has grown some of our best deer. My neighbor, who doesn't have as many acres in plots as I do also plants vetch every year with same results.
Happy to answer any questions
Aeschynomene, or deer vetch. It may not be a 'real' vetch like hairy vetch or such. Look at Hancock seed there is good info there and a place to buy. I'm able to get it from my local feed & Seed.
Here is a picture of vetch taken in a 3 acre long rectangular field. Bottom land usual wet. I kept this field in vetch for 13 years managing it the way mentioned. Then it went 10' underwater a couple of years in a row during prime growth time. I replanted this yr. It would probably be 3-4 ft now but as you can see in the photo every!!! plant is nipped as is true for the entire field.Picture taken about an hour ago.
Elkaddict
Well-Known Member
Baker,
Very impressive deer. Do you have a sense has to how much supplemental feeding has impacted your antler size? Also, does anyone have experience with joint vetch in northern states? Are there any herbicides such as raptor that will kill common weeds but not harm it? I'm always looking for a new addition to the buffet line.
Very impressive deer. Do you have a sense has to how much supplemental feeding has impacted your antler size? Also, does anyone have experience with joint vetch in northern states? Are there any herbicides such as raptor that will kill common weeds but not harm it? I'm always looking for a new addition to the buffet line.
