Weed ID and help plan eradication

I missed this thread! So, for whatever it's worth at this point....
You'll never be rid of Smartweed, but, I don't think you ever get rid of any weed!
Smartweed likes moist, nearly always damp soil. It's biggest threat comes in clover or alfalfa - although if you find it with those crops it might suggest you have the wrong crop in the wrong place. All the advice above about planting cereal grains, all excellent suggestions. Smartweed doesn't compete well if it's shaded.

For control in established clover (yes, I have clover where something else would do better) use ammonium salt of imazamox: 2-[4,5-dihydro-4-methyl-4-(1-methylethyl)- 5-oxo-1 H-imidazol-2-yl)-5-(methoxymethyl)-3-pyridinecarboxylic acid' . The trade names, among several, are RAPTOR or IMMOX. Immox is packaged in quart bottle, making it attractive from a price-point perspective. Since your initial post indicates you have sever restrictions on chemical usage, I'll leave the discussion here.

Mennoniteman said:

... oats grew twice as fast as the barley. However, I drilled mine, broadcasting could possibly affect the results due to greater inconsistency of germination.

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As your writings often do, a vexing thought got re-lit when I read the statement above. The thought is about drilling vs broadcasting. This has little to do with the discussion at hand, but while I have a tenuous grasp of it I thought I'd offer it.

Drilling seed is always my preferred seeding method. Preference and convenience often collide. I think we all know the seeds that germinate adequately when broadcast. For me, OATS is not one of those seeds. My theory has always been the oat hull, there to protect the seed, does a great job when the seed is left on the soil surface. It prevents seed drying, but the same protection prohibit moisture absorption. Drilled into the ground the hull become irrelevant.

Here's a picture of removed oat seed hulls.


If you are broadcasting oat seed, make sure you're oats are hulled (hulls removed). And that brings us back around to the debate about feed oats vs seed oats vs bin-run oats.

X-farmerdan said:

As your writings often do, a vexing thought got re-lit when I read the statement above. The thought is about drilling vs broadcasting. This has little to do with the discussion at hand, but while I have a tenuous grasp of it I thought I'd offer it.

Drilling seed is always my preferred seeding method. Preference and convenience often collide. I think we all know the seeds that germinate adequately when broadcast. For me, OATS is not one of those seeds. My theory has always been the oat hull, there to protect the seed, does a great job when the seed is left on the soil surface. It prevents seed drying, but the same protection prohibit moisture absorption. Drilled into the ground the hull become irrelevant.

Here's a picture of removed oat seed hulls.
View attachment 17598

If you are broadcasting oat seed, make sure you're oats are hulled (hulls removed). And that brings us back around to the debate about feed oats vs seed oats vs bin-run oats.

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Good observation. Broadcasting any kind of grain is only done by non-farmers who unfortunately don't have a drill, because broadcasting unfortunately results in slower emergence, poorer population, uneven seeding, and uneven ripening characteristics of the crop. I do both, but the difference still always amazes me, I drill lots of rye for deer in mid August, and in 4 days it's already popping out of the soil. After a broadcast seeding I'm always wondering, where is my crop at?

LetThemGrow said:

Thanks all and especially MM...I’ll try to work on the Thunder next spring, unless u think I should do it this fall?

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Sorry, missed the question. I would not be spraying this late in the season. Spray next spring when the weeds are 3 inches tall. If you are using Thunder or Imox and the weeds are a little bigger mow first and spray several days after mowing for best results.

By the way, that's a very nice clover field, even considering the smart weed, and you're already over the biggest hurdle, establishing the clover, I think that you will be absolutely amazed with the results of Thunder herbicide. I just love growing clover for deer, after learning a few things about establishing clover it's an easy crop to keep going, and the yield in deer food is absolutely amazing. A Clover and Rye combination gives a deer food plot guy in my zone 6 climates just about year round deer feed in two high producing easy to grow plants that have the ability to outgrow even the heaviest deer grazing pressure.

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Will thunder or Imox kill crab grasses in a clover plot? I’m in Missouri and have a terrible crab grass problem

Heart shot said:

Will thunder or Imox kill crab grasses in a clover plot? I’m in Missouri and have a terrible crab grass problem

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Grasses and weeds controlled or suppressed by Thunder Herbicide, see label for specific information:

• Alligator weed
• Anoda, spurred
• Artichoke, Jerusalem
• Barnyardgrass
• Bedstraw, catchweed
• Beets, wild
• Bluegrass, annual
• Bristly starbur
• Buckwheat, wild
• Buffalobur
• Canarygrass, littleseed
• Carpetweed
• Chickweed, mouseear
• Cocklebur, common
• Common ragweed,
• Crabgrass, Large
• Crabgrass, Smooth
• Cress, hoary
• Crowfootgrass
• Cupgrass, robust purple
• Cupgrass, robust white
• Cupgrass, woolly
• Dandelion
• Devilsclaw
• Dock, broadleaf (seedling)
• Dock, curly (seedling)
• Dodder
• Fiddleneck
• Filaree, redstem
• Filaree, whitestem
• Fleabane, rough
• Flixweed
• Foxtail, Giant
• Foxtail, Green
• Foxtail, Yellow
• Galinsoga
• Giant ragweed
• Goosefoot, nettleleaf
• Goosegrass
• Grounsel, common
• Henbit
• Jimsonweed
• Johnsongrass, Rhizome and Seedling
• Junglerice
• Knotweed, prostrate
• Kochia (non-ALS resistant)
• Lambsquarter, common
• Lettuce, miners
• Mallow, Venice
• Mallow, little
• Marshelder
• Millet, wild proso
• Morningglory, entireleaf
• Morningglory, ivyleaf
• Morningglory, pitted
• Morningglory, smallflower
• Morningglory, tall
• Mustard sp
• Mustard, wild
• Mustards, tumble
• Nettle, burning
• Nightshade Eastern black
• Nightshade hairy
• Nightshade, black
• Nutsedge, purple
• Nutsedge, yellow
• Oats, wild
• Oxtongue, bristly
• Panicum, Fall
• Panicum, Texas
• Pennycress, field
• Pepperweed, Virginia
• Pepperweed, field
• Pigweed, redroot
• Pigweed, smooth
• Pigweed, spiny
• Poinsettia, wild
• Puncturevine
• Purslane, common
• Pusley, Florida
• Quackgrass
• Radish, wild
• Ragweed, common
• Red rice
• Rocket, London
• Rocket, Yellow
• Rockpurslane, desert
• Sage, barnyard
• Sandbur, field
• Shattercane
• Shepherd's purse
• Sida, prickly (teaweed)
• Signalgrass, broadleaf
• Smartweed swamp (seedling)
• Smartweed, Pennsylvania
• Smartweed, ladysthumb
• Sorghum, almum
• Sprangletop, Red
• Spurge, petty
• Spurge, prostrate
• Spurge, spotted
• Spurge, toothed
• Spurry, corn
• Swinecress
• Tansy mustard, pinnate
• Thistle, Canada
• Thistle, Russian
• Velvetleaf
• Volunteer Corn
• Volunteer barley
• Volunteer oats
• Volunteer wheat
• Wartcress, creeping
• Watercress
• Waterhemp, common
• Waterhemp, tall
• Wild Proso Millet
• Wild oats
• Willow weed, panicle
• Witchgrass

Not to derail this thread.........but what plants or rather food plot plants will grow when using Thunder. Other than clover and chickory, are there any taller stuff that will tolerate the herbicide?
Thanks

Lewi B said:

Not to derail this thread.........but what plants or rather food plot plants will grow when using Thunder. Other than clover and chickory, are there any taller stuff that will tolerate the herbicide?
Thanks

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Thunder Herbicide is labeled for use on the following areas but always consult the label for specific information.

• Adzuki beans
• Agricultural reserve program
• Alfalfa
• Black turtle beans
• Chickpeas
• Clover
• Conservation reserve program (CRP)
• Cover crops
• English peas
• Great northern beans
• Lentils
• Lima beans
• Navy beans
• Peanuts
• Pinto beans
• Red kidney beans
• Snap beans
• Southern peas
• Soybeans
• Succulent peas
• White lupin

Thunder and Imox are the same thing with a slight, insignificant chemical twist to get around registrations and patents.
THUNDER: Ammonium salt of imazethapyr (±)-2-[4,5-dihydro-4- methyl-4-(1-methylethyl)-5-oxo-1H-imidazol-2-yl]- -ethyl-3-pyridinecarboxylic acid* . . . .
IMMOX: ammonium salt of imazamox: 2-[4,5-dihydro-4-methyl-4-(1-methylethyl)- 5-oxo-1 H-imidazol-2-yl)-5-(methoxymethyl)-3-pyridinecarboxylic acid'

But, do not confuse the packaged concentrations. IMMOX is 12% active ingredient while THUNDER is 22.8%.

Crabgrass? Wouldn't clethodim be a cheaper alternative? Neither herbicide is a miracle worker. Application at the correct time and with the right rates and additives are requirements for acceptable control (not complete kill, perhaps).

As I seem to always be saying rather than jump on the chemical wagon analyze why a plant is there and how to negate the effect and if one should even care it’s presence.
Smartweed likes moisture and sun. So formulate a plan to reduce those excessive requirements. Same apply to most any plant for foodplotting.
I do use chemical some and the Imox worked well for most things and really had residual control of thistle. But again as I rid of one, the goldenrod took off. Gets me right back to what I said, manage the problem not kill what one thinks is the problem.
Funny in my county many were bent out of shape how a 40 in gas transmission line was going to destroy the water quality and standard of care. Yet many a farmer here throws down enough fert, insecticide, and herbicide to kill a horse. And we are simply foodplotters. Don’t make it complicated.


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dogghr said:

As I seem to always be saying rather than jump on the chemical wagon analyze why a plant is there and how to negate the effect and if one should even care it’s presence.
Smartweed likes moisture and sun. So formulate a plan to reduce those excessive requirements. Same apply to most any plant for foodplotting.
I do use chemical some and the Imox worked well for most things and really had residual control of thistle. But again as I rid of one, the goldenrod took off. Gets me right back to what I said, manage the problem not kill what one thinks is the problem.
Funny in my county many were bent out of shape how a 40 in gas transmission line was going to destroy the water quality and standard of care. Yet many a farmer here throws down enough fert, insecticide, and herbicide to kill a horse. And we are simply foodplotters. Don’t make it complicated.


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As Dick Vitale might say.........Allelopathy,Baby!!!!!!!!!........

bill