"Whitetail Hollow" - 90 Acres NE Oklahoma.

What is amazing to me is how the deer survive your neighbors, considering all the small hunting parcels that surround you and the poaching, etc. You would think every deer with horns would get whacked each year, but they manage to find a way and even thrive on your medium size property. I could understand it if you had 500 or a 1000 acres of cover and they were hiding out, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It appears that you have quite a bit of mature oak trees, not thick stuff. Any thoughts on why your property holds so many bucks? Less hunting pressure?
Background...
My uncle bought this place in 1972. Where my west neighbor lives was another fellow and his family and they were hardcore poachers. My uncle didn’t live here so the folks in that house wore this property out. My uncle was constantly tearing down tree stands and getting into altercations with this guy. The only deer my uncle killed here was a small 6 pointer and he finally just wrote it off for deer hunting because since he was here so seldom the neighbor kept it shot out. The best thing my uncle was able to do was finally stop the gent and his family from using a road through the property to get to their home by digging a big trench across the driveway with a backhoe and using threats to get him to build a driveway on his own side. In those days a man and his wife owned around 360 acres that joined it on the east side and there were no real close neighbors past that. I think the entire road only had 3 houses on it. I could have hunted it for years if I had wanted after he passed but all I could think of was how much heck he had here. I never really paid a lot of attention to it and once or twice a year I would drive up and just make sure nobody was dumping on it or cutting wood off of it. My aunt did not care what I did here and at 1 time I even let a 21 year old kid hunt here because he was just learning and wanted a place to go. He never got anything here but he did see some deer.
I never did realize when the gent that lived next door lost his place to foreclosure back several years ago. 1 year I drove up and noticed a new road dozed in along the property to the east. I drove down the road and every little bit I would see a driveway and a camper or cabin. That was the time I learned that the owner of the east side had broken off 160 acres and sold it in 16 10 acre parcels. Most bought it for hunting and some are just subsistence, off the grid types. I figured this place would never be any good for anything after that but it did have some great white oak trees and terrain features. My wife and I came up 1 day to check on it in December 2013 and I saw a for sale sign on the side of the road our home now sits. My wife and I walked into the property along an old logging road I still use now and we jumped some deer. On that trip I noticed a lot of rubs on the pines that are throughout the property. When we got done I called my aunt and told her I didn’t know the place was for sale and she told me it wasn’t. Seems a realtor got a little liberal with where they thought a property down the road came to. She said she would sell it to me if I wanted and we came to an agreement. Before we closed I had set up some trail cameras and other than lots of dog pictures I got some really nice buck pictures. I started getting really excited about that time...I saw trails that neighbors were using to come into the property so I knew the first thing we were doing was fencing. We surveyed, fenced, and dozed in a small plot and waterhole. There is not a lot of water or open ground in our area and the deer took to the water and plot immediately. That first spring I found a decent shed and had 3 bucks running together that were all mature and I saw them several times while turkey hunting that first spring. They liked bedding on the points of the many hollows and finger ridges we have. There are small thickets all throughout the place so it’s not all open woods. These thickets are all pretty small but I have increased them over time and it is a continuing process. That first fall we had 5 mature bucks using the property and my wife killed 1 and I killed 2 and the other 2 I assume were killed by the neighbors as we never saw them again after the first 3 weeks in October. With all the mature bucks gone but several 2.5 and 3.5 year old bucks left we hoped maybe something would move in and it happens every year so far. If we kill the most mature buck on the place they are replaced within a couple weeks. Our place has more food, military crest, acorns, and water than most all the properties around us. I am working on cover as we go and I feel that is our only weak point. As far as hunting pressure I am pretty sure I hunt our place harder than any of my neighbors do and even if I blow the deer out they come right back. I think my neighbors are not good at deer hunting and I don’t think they are dedicated. For a 2 year period there was a young guy renting a house from our north neighbor that worked construction and took all fall off and he got a couple of the top deer using our place but he has been been gone a couple years. I caught him poaching with a rifle in bow season the last year he was out here and the warden paid him a visit.The few does in our area love our place but ever since we have been here we have had as many as 2 bucks per doe and right now are at about 1.5 bucks per doe.

The main thing I think we have is that the terrain makes mature bucks want to be here and the replacement factor. These are all deep woods deer and we have miles and miles of forest to draw the most mature deer in these woods to our place I guess because they just like it so much. I am working on getting persimmons to grow and I am continuously using my chainsaw in different pockets on the place. I am getting ready to purchase a dozer to supplement my brushhogging business and I will be using it here on the place as well and looking at logging about 30 acres of it near our west neighbor area to create some super thick and nasty bedding areas for the does and for cash flow.
 
Deer taken on our place since we have owned it.

2014

My muzzleloader buck.

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Wife’s rifle buck
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my rifle buck.
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2015 we got our bucks on our deer lease but top buck on our place came up missing first week in October and never seen again. we had mature bucks at home but mostly wrong winds to hunt here.

2016
My bow buck.
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2017 we killed all our bucks at our deer lease but we had some bruisers at home.

2018

Wife’s rifle buck.
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My muzzleloader buck.
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2019
My October bow buck.
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Wife’s muzzleloader buck.
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My mid November Bow buck.
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That sure is a beautiful bunch of deer Okie. The tine length is incredible and consistent throughout. Too bad they aren't like daylilies where we can send pollen to each other to take the best gene traits from each area.
 
Forgot how many good bucks you had taken since 2013 Johnny. I remember when you started your property thread tour on the now defunct forum and particularly the fence build. Seems like yesterday doesn't it. I also find it hard to believe that we are hunting our 9th season our our place. I remember so vividly the first time Brooks and I walked on our place when it was for sale back in 2010. Been one heck of a ride ever since!
 
That sure is a beautiful bunch of deer Okie. The tine length is incredible and consistent throughout. Too bad they aren't like daylilies where we can send pollen to each other to take the best gene traits from each area.
I think they do that in a lot of high fence operations and sell semen...not gonna happen here though. What is the consensus on why the bucks in NY tend to have shorter times but further north in Canada they get long again in the big woods...
 
Thanks for taking the time to share details on your place. Very interesting thoughts on the military crests and mature deer filling openings!
Our property has 8 military crest, 5 very deep hollows, 14 finger ridges and 3 saddles but even with all of that going on the center of the property is mostly level with all the terrain features being on the south, east, and west side. Access from the sides is difficult at best but walking from my home down a couple old logging roads through the woods in the center makes for easy travel. It’s not the best scenario and opening weekends of the gun season I don’t like to access deeper stands on the property this way for fear of pushing a target deer out unless I have wind and wet woods to help my access. If the woods are absolutely still and dry I either hunt the southern area close to home or I access along my east fence to the back of the property. The problem is I always jump deer doing this that are bedding on the edges and when I jump them I hope they run into the property instead of out. Evening hunts are no issue...
There are miles of unbroken woods that our property is a part of all around and we make this little part a paradise and mature deer always want to control the does we draw in here and use those points for bedding. There is a big racked old 8 pointer that uses our place but these much bigger bodied bucks push him out most of the fall and I get pics of him all summer and then a few night pics through season and then it seems at the tail of the rut he comes back after the bucks start being more friendly to 1 another again. I am sure he is rutting because he is worn down but he doesn’t seem able to compete with bucks that have 30 lbs on him. He is at least 7.5 years old now...if he makes it through season again he will be the only buck I can recall that was here when we bought the place in January 2014...
 
Forgot how many good bucks you had taken since 2013 Johnny. I remember when you started your property thread tour on the now defunct forum and particularly the fence build. Seems like yesterday doesn't it. I also find it hard to believe that we are hunting our 9th season our our place. I remember so vividly the first time Brooks and I walked on our place when it was for sale back in 2010. Been one heck of a ride ever since!
Thank you 3C...those are just the bucks from this property when we purchased in January 2014. The wife and I took several more good bucks on our deer lease over that same time frame when we weren’t hunting here...

Lease deer in that same time frame...

My 2015 Muzzleloader buck.
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My 2017 Muzzleloader buck.
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My wife’s 2017 muzzleloader buck.

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My 2017 rifle buck.

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My 2018 draw in hunt muzzleloader deer...

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I just now took a peak out the dining room window and a single deer was in the backyard. I was getting my binoculars to look and I guess the light in our house backlit me and he threw his head up to show a nice 8 point rack and then he bolted for the trees which are close...I love living here! Saturday I get to play guide for my grandson!
The TripleC was my inspiration when I started our land tour...thank you for that!
 
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Great to read again your great story. Wonderful place!
Congrats on job well done and the rewards
Thank you LnG...looking to make it even better in the near future. If you remember I despise hickory which we have way too much of and I spoke with a logger yesterday and he said there is a good market for it with the smoked meats crowd right now...going to Texas in a couple weeks to look aver a bunch of bull dozers, and my wife will be back in Oklahoma full time this coming April...life is good!!!
 
Nice little review and history on your place Okie. I love seeing the pictorial history of your deer.
Thank you catscratch...I have a lot of “pinch me” moments for sure. I went over to our other place yesterday that I used to call “Home 10” that has now expanded to nearly 30 acres to just look over an area I want to put a fishing pond in and it looks like my pines have taken a beating from the bucks again this year. I have no cameras, plots, or feeders going there this year since I have a renter in the house there now but it still looks like a lot of deer are using the property. The renter (nephew) showed me a video of a really nice for that area buck with a doe he took with his cell phone a few days ago. He does not hunt even though I have told him he could if he liked...how has the hunting been at your place this fall?
 
Good deal that the Home 10 is doing well also!

I've been able to hunt the last two weekends. It's been good; seeing deer on every sit and many of them are solid bucks. I did have a big one skirt me at 40yds last weekend. I would have taken a shot at him if given the opportunity. A doe blew up the creek and he changed directions to chase her, kept him just out of my comfortable range. I think I'll be able to get a few more hunts in before rifle season starts.
 
I think they do that in a lot of high fence operations and sell semen...not gonna happen here though. What is the consensus on why the bucks in NY tend to have shorter times but further north in Canada they get long again in the big woods...
You are right Okie, That's how they do it and I wouldn't want that either. I do not know why the tines on the deer on this property are generally short. I have never hunted Canada and don't know about the current average tine lengths there. Looking at the Outfitter internet ad pictures they show a deer larger than here with mostly long tines but body size and long tine length of course do not necessarily go together and possibly they don't use shorter tine length deer pictures in their ads if they have any. Could the Canada deer genes been tweaked due to wolf predation with the longest tined deer surviving? I have no clue.

We hunted northern Maine big woods for many years and experienced generally short tine lengths there as well. Back to here, I just examined a pile of racks from here and from those racks (a small sampling of the area) of the deer shot before 2015 definitely have shorter tines than the deer shot since then. The deer since 2015 have mostly been a year or two older than those before 2015. The absolute longest tine measures 10 7/8 inches--nothing any larger. Still the last four years tines have been larger than before so it shows tine length is not a fixed deal. The improvement could be better food over the last four years, more appropriate population for the available food, better genetic expression, more favorable gene mix or older age deer or a combination of all of that. I really don't know. We could be at peak now for the genes in this current makeup of deer on this property. Time will tell.

One thing noticeable in the trail cam pictures is an increase of ten pointers over eights, tens were more rare before 2015 but now ten pointers are fairly common for older deer on this property.

In any event you really have your property firing on all cylinders; it is amazing what you have developed there.
 
Eli’s deer story...

On the Thursday before our rifle opener on the 23rd I walked across the road to check cameras 1 more time in the mid day. It was raining and I figured it was as good a time as any. When I walked over I had gotten about 100 yards in and was very near our south plot when I jumped a nice 3.5 yr old I thought was a decent young 8 with some stickers. He stood where he jumped up and made a circle around my position with his nose to the ground so apparently a hot doe was nearby. I continued on my way and decided if this buck came by he would be on Eli’s list of shootable bucks of which there were about 9...I noted I had multiple pictures of this buck in the south plot and at every camera checked so I backed out not to return until Saturday morning with Eli.

I picked Eli and his little brother up after school and our deer lease owner throws a big dinner for all the hunters the night before rifle so we headed down there and checked the 2 locations I have double ladder stands to see if anything was using the area. The cam pulls were very disappointing so we went on to the lodge and had a great time visiting with everyone. We then headed back and dropped Eli’s little brother back off at home and then we came on to our house. I got Eli up early and even though the weather channel had shown the rain should have ended by midnight that it was still raining and about 31 degrees so I decided we would sit the blind in the south plot even though the wind was only going to be good unless the deer got on our east side since we had a direct west wind. We saw 6 does before the deer got on the wrong side of us and left the plot and then we saw 2 more does skirt the plot in the woods about an hour later and then nothing else.

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Eli was really tired so we came in at 10:00 and had lunch and we took a nap. At 2:00 we went back out...i had placed 2 ladder stand in white oaks very near to one another and I sat 1 and Eli the other. I was only there as an observer and to assist.

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We saw a doe skirt the creek bottom around us about an hour into our site and then a bit after 5 a 7 point buck walked in from behind my position. He was 2.5 but I had already decided he would be ok for Eli to take and Eli motioned he wanted to shoot it so I whispered for him to get on sighted on it while I was taking photos.

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While I was watching this buck I could hear something walking behind my tree and I finally saw what it was and I motioned for Eli to switch targets.

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This buck ended up pushing the other buck and they both left before Eli could get lined up. I thought our evening was done but about 5 minutes later the younger buck came back with the 3.5 in tow. I whispered “get on the 2nd one” the bucks both turned broadside and Eli took the shot. The deer wheeled and ran east but I saw him crash on the crest of the creek bottom and roll down the hill. I air high fives Eli and we got down and went and claimed his prize. He hit it perfectly through the heart with the 30/30.

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I got more pics this morning...

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So proud of this little guy that I taught to hunt and has been hunting 7 years now. He is already talking about next year!!!


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Okie, Eli is a lucky kid to have you mentoring him but I'm also thinking you are pretty lucky also. You are welcome to send Eli up here for a hunt any day but I'm thinking he might be teaching me rather that the other way around.
 
Okie, Eli is a lucky kid to have you mentoring him but I'm also thinking you are pretty lucky also. You are welcome to send Eli up here for a hunt any day but I'm thinking he might be teaching me rather that the other way around.
Lol...I had him pretty turned around in the woods...I need more time with him to teach him woodsmanship...I don’t think kids nowadays have any grasp of direction...
 
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