Weed ID and help plan eradication

LetThemGrow

LetThemGrow

Member
This weed has taken over after a gly application and failed seeding. Seems to be stronger than the clover that survived the gly.

I'd appreciate any help on ID and treatment. I haven't tilled in a few years but would consider lightly discing next spring if needed. I am in SE Pennsylvania. I am severely limited in chemical usage by my lease agreement.

Thanks in advance!

tY8GZfY


pfJPwLk
 
It's smartweed.

I've personally not used any specialized herbicides on it but some folks on this forum have. Raptor is one of them. When Mennoniteman and/or X Farmer Dan sees this thread, they can advise you on herbicides.
 
Seems to like any clover plot especially if they have wet feet. Overseed heavy with WR and allow it to grow thick into summer. And plots w more grass and weeds have less issue w it. Despite our love for monoculture clover. Good luck


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Dogghr is on my wavelength.

If it's too late to get rye going in it this fall, I'd throw down a 2 bushel rate of forage barley in early spring to head off the warm season weeds.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I seemed to have missed the barley popularity surge, and threads in particular to catch up?
 
MarkDarvin said:
When you run out of options and are about to give up, that's when you'll be ready for barley.
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I did a small grain test last spring on my property and oats outgrew wheat and barley by double the growth. My point is a plant that grows well in one area may not do well in another climate and soil type. Everyone needs to figure out what does well for their particular property with the methods they use.
LetThemGrow said:
This weed has taken over after a gly application and failed seeding. Seems to be stronger than the clover that survived the gly.

I'd appreciate any help on ID and treatment. I haven't tilled in a few years but would consider lightly discing next spring if needed. I am in SE Pennsylvania. I am severely limited in chemical usage by my lease agreement.

Thanks in advance!

tY8GZfY


pfJPwLk
Click to expand...
Search and read my different posts on Thunder herbicide on this forum. While I rotate through several different herbicides on clover thunder is the best one that I use by far. It will clean up your smartweed. Spray after mowing for best results. If you can't even spray this once a year your choices are mowing multiple times a summer, especially before the smartweed goes into seed, or discing the clover and planting small grain to choke the smartweed. My rule of thumb for Pennsylvania small grain for deer is spring oats, fall rye. Discing only will not do you much good to control smartweed. If you can spray gly I'd try to get permission to spray Thunder, you should get amazing results. This stuff kills about everything except clover.
2966ffef1b88085aaf803989585c780e.image.74x120.jpg
 
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Mennoniteman said:
I did a small grain test last spring on my property and oats outgrew wheat and barley by double the growth. My point is a plant that grows well in one area may not do well in another climate and soil type. Everyone needs to figure out what does well for their particular property with the methods they use.
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I find cereals and clovers fascinating. There's a place for every cereal on my place, and I have all 4 planted this year, and will likely each year.

Oats: No better tonnage maker in the fall.
Winter rye: No better weed suppressor and carbon/biomass generator. Best fit for horrible soil.
Winter wheat: Great combo for fall forage, extended spring grazing, and summer heads grazing.
Barley: For when you forgot to plant rye or wheat last fall or can't get the winters to survive spring. Short season, easy to mow-kill ahead of fall plantings even in the dreaded zone 3. Fills same niche as WW from spring to termination.
 
Most of my plot ground is too wet for wheat and rye to survive the snowmelt period. In those spots I stick with oats. However, next year I'm likely going to double-crop barley in combination with those fall oats. Even if the barley puts out heads, it should be readily used by the deer at any time.

I've got some new plot space I dug up and elevated outta the water. That's where I've got wheat planted, and I threw down rye where I'm trying to keep a lid on grasses in my trail clover.
 
MarkDarvin said:
I find cereals and clovers fascinating. There's a place for every cereal on my place, and I have all 4 planted this year, and will likely each year.

Oats: No better tonnage maker in the fall.
Winter rye: No better weed suppressor and carbon/biomass generator. Best fit for horrible soil.
Winter wheat: Great combo for fall forage, extended spring grazing, and summer heads grazing.
Barley: For when you forgot to plant rye or wheat last fall or can't get the winters to survive spring. Short season, easy to mow-kill ahead of fall plantings even in the dreaded zone 3. Fills same niche as WW from spring to termination.
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Not to take away from wheat and barley, but spring oats are quicker to establish then spring barley, and the summer seed heads are preferred by deer over barley.
Winter Rye is a better weed suppressor than wheat because when fall planted it gets an earlier start in the spring than fall planted wheat, quoting a study by The University of California Cooperative Extension Division of Agriculture and Natural Resources, besides also being easier to grow in marginal soils.
And the USDA not recommend barley on poorly drained soils:
"Barley is sensitive to winter conditions and will die if the temperature drops below 17°F (Hannaway et al., 2004). Barley cannot tolerate poorly drained soil, grows well when pH values are between 6.0– 8.5 (Midwest Cover Crops Council, 2012), and has been used to reclaim saline soils (Hannaway et al., 2004).Oct 24, 2012 Barley Plant Guide - USDA Plants Database"
If I were farming good soils wheat and barley would be my top two grains. But with marginal soils and marginal farming practices for wildlife wheat and barley have never done the things that rye and oats does for me. I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but to give new food plot guys some insight on what works and doesn't work well in Pennsylvania.
 
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Can’t argue much w Mark or Mennonite and have never done barley. But as for WW it works pretty dang well on poor soil. This is the worst of my plot soils as far as texture. This WW planted on brown dead plot after 3 mo of no rain and in exceptional drought according to NWS.
Throw and pray mid Oct w a few rains since. Two plots done in WW and RC and 3 overseeded w WR.
And I’d be careful quoting and study from Cali as they can’t figure how to manage neither water and brush. Lol
WW here didn’t take pic of WR but it looks the same. As I’ve said before WR easier for following year to T&M into.
443286a9a17b133b3221517454626008.jpg



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Mennoniteman said:
Not to take away from wheat and barley, but spring oats are quicker to establish then spring barley, and the summer seed heads are preferred by deer over barley.
Winter Rye is a better weed suppressor than wheat because when fall planted it gets an earlier start in the spring than fall planted wheat, quoting a study by The University of California Cooperative Extension Division of Agriculture and Natural Resources, besides also being easier to grow in marginal soils.
And the USDA not recommend barley on poorly drained soils:
"Barley is sensitive to winter conditions and will die if the temperature drops below 17°F (Hannaway et al., 2004). Barley cannot tolerate poorly drained soil, grows well when pH values are between 6.0– 8.5 (Midwest Cover Crops Council, 2012), and has been used to reclaim saline soils (Hannaway et al., 2004).Oct 24, 2012 Barley Plant Guide - USDA Plants Database"
If I were farming good soils wheat and barley would be my top two grains. But with marginal soils and marginal farming practices for wildlife wheat and barley have never done the things that rye and oats does for me. I'm not trying to be disagreeable, but to give new food plot guys some insight on what works and doesn't work well in Pennsylvania.
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No harm man. The more working on this, the better. I've got hefty demands from my cereals, and they've all got reasons to be used. I like your point on spring planted oats. I tried some early maturity oats last year, but didn't put down a high enough rate to see what they could do. I'd also like the cut my plot in half and do short season on one side, long on the other, and see how far apart they really are in maturity.

Big picture, I'm planning to broadcast upwards of 3 bushels/ac (2 barley/1 oats) in spring into my white clover long before the clover gets going. That time of year, my chief objective is to push as much straw and carbon into my clover plot as possible, to work towards beating the warm season grasses to any free nitrogen.
 
MarkDarvin said:
No harm man. The more working on this, the better. I've got hefty demands from my cereals, and they've all got reasons to be used. I like your point on spring planted oats. I tried some early maturity oats last year, but didn't put down a high enough rate to see what they could do. I'd also like the cut my plot in half and do short season on one side, long on the other, and see how far apart they really are in maturity.

Big picture, I'm planning to broadcast upwards of 3 bushels/ac (2 barley/1 oats) in spring into my white clover long before the clover gets going. That time of year, my chief objective is to push as much straw and carbon into my clover plot as possible, to work towards beating the warm season grasses to any free nitrogen.
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I'd like to see you doing a test of oats vs. Barley in separate strips side by side like I did last spring to see if it would validate my results that the oats grew twice as fast as the barley. However, I drilled mine, broadcasting could possibly affect the results due to greater inconsistency of germination.
 
dogghr said:
Can’t argue much w Mark or Mennonite and have never done barley. But as for WW it works pretty dang well on poor soil. This is the worst of my plot soils as far as texture. This WW planted on brown dead plot after 3 mo of no rain and in exceptional drought according to NWS.
Throw and pray mid Oct w a few rains since. Two plots done in WW and RC and 3 overseeded w WR.
And I’d be careful quoting and study from Cali as they can’t figure how to manage neither water and brush. Lol
WW here didn’t take pic of WR but it looks the same. As I’ve said before WR easier for following year to T&M into.
443286a9a17b133b3221517454626008.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Dogghr, your results look convincing. Small grains are a such a key part of food plots for so many reasons. If you get a chance sometime do some side by side testing and post the results, I'm always interested in looking others results.
 
Mennoniteman said:
I'd like to see you doing a test of oats vs. Barley in separate strips side by side like I did last spring to see if it would validate my results that the oats grew twice as fast as the barley. However, I drilled mine, broadcasting could possibly affect the results due to greater inconsistency of germination.
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There's really no need. Oats win the spring biomass race for sure.

I use a heavy percentage of oats in the fall for green tonnage. It beats the pants off of all others for fall tonnage. Where I can grow WW, I cut the oats back and put in a rate of WW. Barley is good for creating a manageable amount of spring-planted biomass and a high feed value summer grain that can be grazed ahead of fall planting. Oats are light and have hulls which drop the feed value. Oats can actually outyield barley bushels by as much as 25%, but when you adjust for weight and hulls, barley outyields in lbs/ac by 50%.

One place I wish I'd have planted rye was my plot expansion. I dug up some very heavy clay to raise up a spot, then packed it down with machinery. In hindsight, I wish I could have rye fighting that next spring.
 
Thanks all and especially MM...I’ll try to work on the Thunder next spring, unless u think I should do it this fall?
 
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