When to apply fertilizer?

In the past I used a pull behind broadcast spreader and my ATV to lime/fertilize/seed. I would mix a bag of 13/13/13 fertilizer, bag of granulated lime, and seed and broadcast then cultipack. It always seemed to work, but now my food plot scale has increased from 1/4 and 1/2 acre plots to a 5 acre plot.

I will be using a 3 point spreader for the fertilizer application and a Golden Valley planter for the seed.

The lime will be applied with a rented lime spreader then tilled into the soil. After the lime I was going to wait two weeks then hit any weed/grass growth with glyphosate. Wait two weeks to apply fertilizer and seed.

The question is should I apply the fertilizer and then disc or till into the soil prior to planting the seed? Can I apply the fertilizer and then lightly disk and apply seed with my planter the same day?

Best guess IMO would be to fertilizer and disk first. Once you get that done, wait a week or two and hopefully receive some rain to help work in the fertilizer. The main concern with the fertilizer and seed is that you don't want to put it down when it's supposed to be dry and warm for a while. It can cook up your seeds. The best thing you can do though when messing with soils is get a soil sample. Until you know the break down in the soil, adding fertilizer and lime etc is just something to do and may not even be what the soil needs.

Mitch123 said:

Best guess IMO would be to fertilizer and disk first. Once you get that done, wait a week or two and hopefully receive some rain to help work in the fertilizer. The main concern with the fertilizer and seed is that you don't want to put it down when it's supposed to be dry and warm for a while. It can cook up your seeds. The best thing you can do though when messing with soils is get a soil sample. Until you know the break down in the soil, adding fertilizer and lime etc is just something to do and may not even be what the soil needs.

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I had soil test performed and need 0.5 tons of lime, 115 lbs of DAP, and 65 lbs of Pot Ash per acre.

Stevieray said:

I had soil test performed and need 0.5 tons of lime, 115 lbs of DAP, and 65 lbs of Pot Ash per acre.

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Overall looks like your soil is in pretty good condition then. I would get your lime and fertilizer spread spread first and tilled into the ground. After this, wait a week or two and spray to kill off everything. After you do this and everything is good and brown then you can burn off the fields if you can and what. This will help release a little more potash back into the ground and help green things up. After all of that till up the ground well and get to seeding and hope for some rain!

What are you planting? I would put P & K down with the lime and work it in. If you need to put down nitrogen, you risk using some if you put it down early, especially if not incorporated. Plant when the soil conditions/temp is right.

I planted 2, 1 acre plots of ladino clover/chickory last weekend. I tilled both plots and on the one I cultipacked it and then put down my seed and fertilizer 6-24-24. I then cultipacked it again and was done with that one. The other I tilled and then put down a 1/2 ton of pelletized lime and lightly tilled that in. I cultipacked it and then put down the same seed mix as the other field along with the same fertilizer. 400# per acre. I cultipacked it again and was then done. We are currently on our 3rd rain event since we planted last Saturday. I should see some germination this weekend I hope.

My experience is you get almost no value putting in line at the same time you put in your seed and fertilizer. I have found my lime needs 3 to 6 months to work on my ph. I test my soil each year first. I then put in lime and till in 3 to 6 months before I plan on planting. Since I've done that my food plots have been awesome

I agree, put lime on long before you plant. But why put the fertilizer on before? Farmers routinely fertilize with seeding or post emergence to avoid leaching, run off and dissipation, esp. with nitrogen.

Anyone else have a recommendation on WHEN to fertilize? (ie: before you plant, when you plant, after germination, etc.)

I fertilize after good germination.

Mennoniteman said:

I agree, put lime on long before you plant. But why put the fertilizer on before? Farmers routinely fertilize with seeding or post emergence to avoid leaching, run off and dissipation, esp. with nitrogen.

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Same here, with the exception of a new plot, I fertilize when I seed. If it’s a new fall plot, I’m prone to guess at the lime, (knowing how much I’ve used before), and take the soil test right after deer season to determine how much more lime is needed. I can then get it in the ground a few months ahead of spring planting. So far it’s worked pretty well for me.

Rare breed said:

My experience is you get almost no value putting in line at the same time you put in your seed and fertilizer. I have found my lime needs 3 to 6 months to work on my ph.

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I think I've read on this board that the best time to apply lime is six months ago; the SECOND best time is now!

Stonewall said:

Anyone else have a recommendation on WHEN to fertilize? (ie: before you plant, when you plant, after germination, etc.)

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For the most part, do it when it's convenient for you. The theories don't always match up with the science about timing and incorporation.
At application, almost all of the P and K in your fertilizer becomes tightly bound to soil particles making it unavailable for a long time. Nitrogen leaches and volatilizes. So, timing is a little more critical. In a perfect world, N will be applied only days before your crops vegetative growth spurt.

Incorporation of fertilizer into the soil thru tillage has, somewhat surprisingly, mixed (no pun intended) results. Surface applied nutrients and incorporated nutrients both have their pluses and minuses. And you can't argue one without sighting the benefits of the other.
On bare earth, the loss of nutrients occurs when the soil moves because of erosion. Incorporated nutrients, and this depends on soil structure, leach more readily.

Lime raises pH over a long(er) period of time. It's application should be considered as a decision separate from planting and fertilizing decisions. However, an application of lime to low pH soils has an immediate impact on the ability of plants to increase uptake of nutrients. That continues to increase overtime.

Why, then, do farmers do a lot of nutrient application at planting? Yes, there is a belief it provides plant nutrients immediately (wrong), but it's mostly to save another trip across the field.

In my life, in my dual roles, P & K got applied in the "off-season," Dec-Jan-Feb. Where crops needed N, its was applied mostly when the plant went into vegetative overdrive.

For food plots, my recommendation is to do lime and fertilizer applications sooner rather than later because sooner soon becomes later, depending on your circumstances. As it happens, my fertilizing, liming, and planting (for food plots) occurs mostly all at the same time because time is more important to me than the argument about timing.

I’ve been doing it the same for years with excellent results. I lime with pellet lime and fertilize, then disk or till. Then I put down seed on top and cultipack. It has worked great in both wet and dry years.
All the same day. In regard to timing of lime, all of our soil has a ph over 6, most being around 6.3. I’ve never dealt with sub 6 ph soil.

x-farmerdan.....do you recommend spreading fertilizer just before a rain or just after if you are not discing it in?

If you’re not incorporating the fertilizer, the urea will need to be rained on during application or within 24 hours after application. That’s what my farming father-in-law has always preached to me.

deer patch said:

x-farmerdan.....do you recommend spreading fertilizer just before a rain or just after if you are not discing it in?

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If I said rain does not factor into any application or seeding decisions I make I'd be lying, but only a little.
I don't have time to wait. I have time to do what I need to do and it isn't always available at what some might consider the right time.
Having said that, I'm not going out there when its zero degrees and the ground is frozen solid. And, from a personal comfort perspective, I'm not going out there when it's 90 and humid.

If you are worried about urea, find another source. Urea N losses are real, but only terrible under the worst conditions.

I mean, we are talking about food plots and not commercial production, right?
Frankly, the whole rain argument I find silly. Fertilizer in a bag does no good. Seed in a bag does no good. If you think you are going to "time" mother nature, surprise! It's like trying to time the stock market. In the end, you lose.

X-farmerdan said:

If I said rain does not factor into any application or seeding decisions I make I'd be lying, but only a little.
I don't have time to wait. I have time to do what I need to do and it isn't always available at what some might consider the right time.
Having said that, I'm not going out there when its zero degrees and the ground is frozen solid. And, from a personal comfort perspective, I'm not going out there when it's 90 and humid.

If you are worried about urea, find another source. Urea N losses are real, but only terrible under the worst conditions.

I mean, we are talking about food plots and not commercial production, right?
Frankly, the whole rain argument I find silly. Fertilizer in a bag does no good. Seed in a bag does no good. If you think you are going to "time" mother nature, surprise! It's like trying to time the stock market. In the end, you lose.

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Just wanted to pick your brain since you used to be in the business of selling fertilizer. Reason I asked was because my fertilizer supplier goes to seminars to stay up on things and he said that his suppliers stated the best time to spread was right after a rain.

deer patch said:

Just wanted to pick your brain since you used to be in the business of selling fertilizer. Reason I asked was because my fertilizer supplier goes to seminars to stay up on things and he said that his suppliers stated the best time to spread was right after a rain.

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But rain is just one factor in the consideration of how to allocate's one's (scarce) time. If, and it's a big IF, scientific research says the best time to apply fertilizer is after rain, the assumption is that all else remains equal. Life's a lot messier. We can't always get there at the exact right time. So, the question becomes, if I missed that magic window of opportunity, and my fertilizer is still in the bag, what have I lost compared to if I had applied fertilizer at the most inopportune time? I'd rather have it on the ground.
And I won't even start the debate about loss of N when urea is applied to wet soil when it's hot and humid.

Bringing it down to food plots, if I apply my fertilizer at my convenience and the rest of you follow all the "best practices" that you've heard, what objective measure shall we use to compare results?

X-farmerdan said:

But rain is just one factor in the consideration of how to allocate's one's (scarce) time. If, and it's a big IF, scientific research says the best time to apply fertilizer is after rain, the assumption is that all else remains equal. Life's a lot messier. We can't always get there at the exact right time. So, the question becomes, if I missed that magic window of opportunity, and my fertilizer is still in the bag, what have I lost compared to if I had applied fertilizer at the most inopportune time? I'd rather have it on the ground.
And I won't even start the debate about loss of N when urea is applied to wet soil when it's hot and humid.

Bringing it down to food plots, if I apply my fertilizer at my convenience and the rest of you follow all the "best practices" that you've heard, what objective measure shall we use to compare results?

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How to compare results....a plant tissue sample would be best. Most people want the best results for their money whether they are farmers or plotters and for the average plotter they want to optimize the dollars they spend. Then the question always turns to the best time to optimize money spent. I for one waste more money on deer than most and try to not waste when one can do better. Waste being the relative term.

The way I take your post is time is more valuable than optimizing conditions when available but some on here has more time than money, hence they are trying to optimize their dollar. Sometimes life does get in the way but we need to optimize more times than not when we are spreading anything for plots.

So spread P & K whenever without loosing nutrient value and urea before a rain to optimize soil uptake?