Is there a negative stigma

howboutthemdawgs

Active Member
surrounding sawtooths? I’ve heard a couple people make mention of it on podcasts but never elaborated, and a forestry consultant I hired said he had mixed feelings about them but he didn’t have much of a wildlife eye. The previous owner of my property planted a decent amount and some in the way of me expanding some food plots. I didn’t know if I should protect them or if they are not valuable enough to worry about?
 
Sawtooths in my area are eaten by deer - but not their first choice. However, sawtooths rarely miss a year and they are usually very prolific and early maturing. If you have no aversion to non-native trees - i believe it has positive value as a wildlife tree.
 
I think the stigma may stem from a fear of them becoming invasive. I have a lot of caution when planting something new, something that could possibly out-compete native/naturalized plants... but I have not seen that with our Sawtooths. My dad has a row of them that has been producing for years. We haven't found a single tree that we hadn't planted. With that said, I fully understand that plants react differently in different zones and what might be acceptable for me might become a disaster for you.

To sum up my experience with Sawtooths; not invasive, no disease or pests, produces reliably, produces early, holds leafs all winter (provides a screen even though leaves turned brown), and fast growing.
 
As had already been stated, some people view all non native species as potentially invasive and this is probably a valid concern. Sawtooths have been in the U.S. since the 1860s though. My dad and his neighbor have probably 50 sawtooths with the neighbor's trees being over 20 years old. Like catscratch, I have never seen a volunteer survive. That being said, I have read some people say that sawtooths are invasive in Illinois and also Alabama. Some people have stated that sawtooth acorns are not as good for wildlife as native acorns. This article states that sawtooth acorns are not as nutritious as native oaks, but the authors compared apples to oranges in providing the nutritional content without standardizing the moisture content of all acorns within their table which affects the nutrient content of the acorns.

If you are looking for fast growth and early acorn production, sawtooths may work for you. There are also native oak species and oak hybrids that grow fast and can produce acorns in less than 10 years, so they may need to be considered also. Drop time also needs to be considered. Where I am in south Mississippi and Louisiana, the sawtooths drop in mid to late August. They usually only drop for a couple of weeks and then they are done. It looks like the drop time is delayed the further north you get, so your latitude and drop time may play a role in your decision. Most native oaks tend to drop later and for a more extended period of time.
 
As had already been stated, some people view all non native species as potentially invasive and this is probably a valid concern. Sawtooths have been in the U.S. since the 1860s though. My dad and his neighbor have probably 50 sawtooths with the neighbor's trees being over 20 years old. Like catscratch, I have never seen a volunteer survive. That being said, I have read some people say that sawtooths are invasive in Illinois and also Alabama. Some people have stated that sawtooth acorns are not as good for wildlife as native acorns. This article states that sawtooth acorns are not as nutritious as native oaks, but the authors compared apples to oranges in providing the nutritional content without standardizing the moisture content of all acorns within their table which affects the nutrient content of the acorns.

If you are looking for fast growth and early acorn production, sawtooths may work for you. There are also native oak species and oak hybrids that grow fast and can produce acorns in less than 10 years, so they may need to be considered also. Drop time also needs to be considered. Where I am in south Mississippi and Louisiana, the sawtooths drop in mid to late August. They usually only drop for a couple of weeks and then they are done. It looks like the drop time is delayed the further north you get, so your latitude and drop time may play a role in your decision. Most native oaks tend to drop later and for a more extended period of time.
Fishman, what hybrid oaks have you had the most success with? Or heard of others having success with in the south? That's referring to fast growth and production. Thanks
 
Where are you located? Your location and soil type will make a big difference in what will or will not work for you.
 
Big difference between "non-native" and "invasive".... Pheasants, soybeans and alfalfa are non-native, but so are Asian-carp, Emerald Ash borer & Kudzu. The difference is that some....the carp, ash borer and kudzu are INVASIVE because they create hardship, damage and even displace native plants, animals and habitats.

I would consider sawtooth oaks non-native , but non-invasive. They are not native, but I am not aware of anyone having them take over to the point where it displaces other native species.
 
Big difference between "non-native" and "invasive".... Pheasants, soybeans and alfalfa are non-native, but so are Asian-carp, Emerald Ash borer & Kudzu. The difference is that some....the carp, ash borer and kudzu are INVASIVE because they create hardship, damage and even displace native plants, animals and habitats.

I would consider sawtooth oaks non-native , but non-invasive. They are not native, but I am not aware of anyone having them take over to the point where it displaces other native species.

Some do classify them as invasive. Though deer hunters normally have deer that clean up those acorns taking away their ability to take over and spread. I have planted them as I was willing to accept the risk. OP asked about the negativity so I was just pointing out why some have those feelings.
 
Some do classify them as invasive. Though deer hunters normally have deer that clean up those acorns taking away their ability to take over and spread. I have planted them as I was willing to accept the risk. OP asked about the negativity so I was just pointing out why some have those feelings.
I wasn't trying to single anyone out. I have a few on my place....nothing even remotely big enough to produce yet. I too will "risk it". I may regret it....but I doubt it. I got far more worse invasives to battle with than worrying about an "invasive" oak.
 
Fishman, what hybrid oaks have you had the most success with? Or heard of others having success with in the south? That's referring to fast growth and production. Thanks

Nativ Nurseries provides a description of several hybrid oak species. I don't have experience with all of the types they list, but I am sure someone on here probably has. I have heard of a northern red oak and shumard oak hybrid that is supposed to produce quickly and there is also the Concordia Oak that produces quickly. One of the members here, MattPatt, has a video on YouTube of his Concordia Oaks. He has also discussed them here on the site.
 
The deer on our place like to bed in thickets of red cedar that are of Eastern origin.
This time of year, they like to browse on honeysuckle vines that come from Japan.
In the Fall, they like to gorge on our acorns that came from...Sawtooth, wherever that is.

All 3 of these seem to have a negative stigma. I ain’t got no time for that.
 
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They seem to do better the farther south you go. There are some planted on a MDC area and they don’t produce any better than the native oaks on that site...at least for the 5 years I checked them. This is on a MDC area in town, in St. Joseph, MO.


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The deer on our place like to bed in thickets of red cedar that are of Eastern origin.
This time of year, they like to browse on honeysuckle vines that come from Japan.
In the Fall, they like to gorge on our acorns that came from...Sawtooth, wherever that is.

All 3 of these seem to have a negative stigma. I ain’t got no time for that.
Where are you located? Putting your location on your profile helps people to connect your area with your trees.
 
I’ve seen the negativity about them, too. It’s a pretty common attitude in the SE — timber country. They are viewed as “weeds.” I’d rather plant native oaks or hybrids, but the fast growth of the sawtooths is a lot of fun to impatient folks like me and my kind.
 
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