Late again

JohnL48

Well-Known Member
For the 2nd yr in a row I've been so busy I just got to cutting grass which was waist high. My clover plot is toast so I plan on a rotation plowing under the clover and putting brassicas. My clover chicory will go in the old brassicas plots. Question is when should I plant the clover since I missed the spring planting ? I read late July to Sept ? Located in southern Catskills NY
 
Be glad you missed Spring for clover planting. If you want to make life easy, always start clover in the Fall with a cover crop, particularly Cereal Rye. You can’t mess it up and you have no weeds to deal with , unlike Spring. I’m in Ct, and if I were you I’d do the clover with oats and Rye and you can add more if you wish. I’d start in last week of August-Sept 15. The Rye you don’t want to plant too early cuz it grows so fast and will get too long and be unattractive to the deer. Your not gona get much out of the clover this year , if any, but next Spring it will come in with the Rye holding back a lot of the weeds. The deer will feed on the Rye and Oats this year and the Rye early next Spring.
 
Be glad you missed Spring for clover planting. If you want to make life easy, always start clover in the Fall with a cover crop, particularly Cereal Rye. You can’t mess it up and you have no weeds to deal with , unlike Spring. I’m in Ct, and if I were you I’d do the clover with oats and Rye and you can add more if you wish. I’d start in last week of August-Sept 15. The Rye you don’t want to plant too early cuz it grows so fast and will get too long and be unattractive to the deer. Your not gona get much out of the clover this year , if any, but next Spring it will come in with the Rye holding back a lot of the weeds. The deer will feed on the Rye and Oats this year and the Rye early next Spring.

What he said. Not only does spring clover get more weed competition, but it might not be fully established before the dry months hit. By the time the clover is established enough to feed deer, the growing season is already halfway over.


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Be glad you missed Spring for clover planting. If you want to make life easy, always start clover in the Fall with a cover crop, particularly Cereal Rye. You can’t mess it up and you have no weeds to deal with , unlike Spring. I’m in Ct, and if I were you I’d do the clover with oats and Rye and you can add more if you wish. I’d start in last week of August-Sept 15. The Rye you don’t want to plant too early cuz it grows so fast and will get too long and be unattractive to the deer. Your not gona get much out of the clover this year , if any, but next Spring it will come in with the Rye holding back a lot of the weeds. The deer will feed on the Rye and Oats this year and the Rye early next Spring.
What would the seed rate be and what would need to be done next spring for the clover to grow ? Wouldnt the rye be to much cover ? Also how about wheat instead of the rye ?? So much to learn
 
Depends on what clover you use. If you go with a white clover, it’s 4-6lbs per acre and the winter wheat would be 90-120 lbs per acre. What types of equipment do you have? You got tractors and disk, Cultipacker ? Or Atv and sprayer? What size plot? That way we can help you through it on seeding. Wheat seed should be buried about an inch while clover can just be broadcasted and packed in. Wheat is fine for a cover crop, but don’t carry the weed suppression that Rye has but wheat is fine. Don’t worry about the clover next year. In the Spring it will come up. You can fertilizer it in the early spring .You have done brassica plots so treat the clover like a brassica seed and don’t bury it. You can bury 1/4 inch, but starting out, just broadcast it and pack it in. More importantly is your PH. Get a soil test and see what your PH is and what amendments you need. You should not plant a perennial clover if your PH is too low. In my opinion, your PH comes before anything so get a soil test unless you know your PH. Also, your clover needs innoculant unless it’s pre-inoculated so ask.
 
Depends on what clover you use. If you go with a white clover, it’s 4-6lbs per acre and the winter wheat would be 90-120 lbs per acre. What types of equipment do you have? You got tractors and disk, Cultipacker ? Or Atv and sprayer? What size plot? That way we can help you through it on seeding. Wheat seed should be buried about an inch while clover can just be broadcasted and packed in. Wheat is fine for a cover crop, but don’t carry the weed suppression that Rye has but wheat is fine. Don’t worry about the clover next year. In the Spring it will come up. You can fertilizer it in the early spring .You have done brassica plots so treat the clover like a brassica seed and don’t bury it. You can bury 1/4 inch, but starting out, just broadcast it and pack it in. More importantly is your PH. Get a soil test and see what your PH is and what amendments you need. You should not plant a perennial clover if your PH is too low. In my opinion, your PH comes before anything so get a soil test unless you know your PH. Also, your clover needs innoculant unless it’s pre-inoculated so ask.
I have plow, disc harrow, tiller, cultipacker, kubota. So I'm good to go for equipment. Trying to get in an acre and 1/2 leaning towards cereal rye with clover and chicory

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What I'm planting
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I usually plant mine around Labor day with rye. If you are going to till and broadcast get your soil ready broadcast the rye and set your disc at about 1-2" depth and disc it in then cultipack. Broadcast your your clover/chickory and cultipack again. This has worked good for me for establishing a clover plot, next spring you can either mow the rye high above the clover, spray it the cleth or just let it go Good luck.

If you select to mow just be careful because does and fawns like to bed in there.

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Put 5lbs of the clover which is the entire bag and use 1.5-2lbs of the chicory. Follow what Scott said for the seeding. If I were you and you don’t mind spending a few more dollars, just do the LC Mix. Add some winter peas and some radishes. Just something to add to the dinner plate for them. Your clover and chicory will still come up next Spring. Or another thing you can do is the Rye, clover and chicory in 3/4 acre and the other 3/4 acre plant brassica only. Brassica should be planted late July to early August. If your unsure of anything ask in here because it can save you a lot of aggravation in the field.
 
I’d do 5lbs of your ladino, 1lb of chicory and a bag each of oats and rye planted Labor Day weekend. If your going to rotate it, I’m a huge fan of medium clover. It grows fast enough to provide forage this year and I get 2+ years out of my stands. The last couple years, I’ve gone with triticale rather than rye. I believe the deer find it more attractive. Next spring, spray with cleth or mow to keep it from going to seed.
 
I’d do 5lbs of your ladino, 1lb of chicory and a bag each of oats and rye planted Labor Day weekend. If your going to rotate it, I’m a huge fan of medium clover. It grows fast enough to provide forage this year and I get 2+ years out of my stands. The last couple years, I’ve gone with triticale rather than rye. I believe the deer find it more attractive. Next spring, spray with cleth or mow to keep it from going to seed.
Triticle ? Now I'm even more confused on what to plant :)
 
John, it’s a cross between wheat and rye. A little harder to get, but I’ll use it whenever I can find it, and if not, happily go back to rye and oats.
 
I''m late to this game but I bet if given a chance your clover plot can rebound. I wouldn't restart it. Just spray Cleth after its grown for couple weeks and then reseed Labor day with more clover and chicory. Frost seed in March the clover and chicory again if you want. Apply 0-20-20 fert this fall and spray again with Cleth if you want.
Grasses in clover plots are really not that big a deal except for the plotter. Clover grows quite well in yards all the time and the deer don't care.
As for your Question, I agree with others, do clover plantings late Aug, early Sept. Good luck.
 
I''m late to this game but I bet if given a chance your clover plot can rebound. I wouldn't restart it. Just spray Cleth after its grown for couple weeks and then reseed Labor day with more clover and chicory. Frost seed in March the clover and chicory again if you want. Apply 0-20-20 fert this fall and spray again with Cleth if you want.
Grasses in clover plots are really not that big a deal except for the plotter. Clover grows quite well in yards all the time and the deer don't care.
As for your Question, I agree with others, do clover plantings late Aug, early Sept. Good luck.
I politely differ on the grass in clover, it is a big deal. Grass has such an extensive root system that it will take all the water and nutrients away from clover and if left go will choke out clover fields very quickly. And what a lot of plotters just don't get is that deer eat very little grass because grass is high in cellulose and deer don't have the enzymes and stomachs of a cow to digest the lignin in it. Studies show that a deer will never eat more than 15% of it's diet in grasses. The end of clover plots isn't usually that the clover dies out on it's own, but that it gets choked out by grass and weeds that are more competitive than the clover. Broadleaf weeds in clover are often also deer food, but grass needs to be sprayed with clethodim or it will be game over.
 
I politely differ on the grass in clover, it is a big deal. Grass has such an extensive root system that it will take all the water and nutrients away from clover and if left go will choke out clover fields very quickly. And what a lot of plotters just don't get is that deer eat very little grass because grass is high in cellulose and deer don't have the enzymes and stomachs of a cow to digest the lignin in it. Studies show that a deer will never eat more than 15% of it's diet in grasses. The end of clover plots isn't usually that the clover dies out on it's own, but that it gets choked out by grass and weeds that are more competitive than the clover. Broadleaf weeds in clover are often also deer food, but grass needs to be sprayed with clethodim or it will be game over.
This is the experience I'm having right now with my current Clover plot 2 years of being too busy and neglect it just got overrun by grass I'm going to turn it over and put brassicas in and start over in another plot
 
I politely differ on the grass in clover, it is a big deal. Grass has such an extensive root system that it will take all the water and nutrients away from clover and if left go will choke out clover fields very quickly. And what a lot of plotters just don't get is that deer eat very little grass because grass is high in cellulose and deer don't have the enzymes and stomachs of a cow to digest the lignin in it. Studies show that a deer will never eat more than 15% of it's diet in grasses. The end of clover plots isn't usually that the clover dies out on it's own, but that it gets choked out by grass and weeds that are more competitive than the clover. Broadleaf weeds in clover are often also deer food, but grass needs to be sprayed with clethodim or it will be game over.
First, if he sprays and kills the grasses, the clover will rebound. Second, the grasses eat up the excess N produced by the clover which is one reason they sneak in there to start. Have you ever seen clover die out in a yard without some chemical spray? Always stays prevalent along with a variety of other growth. Deer had the dog barking midnight last night as they ate in my front yard of 25 years. No they wont eat the grasses, but that clover will persist quite well. I see your thot, and get it, but it just not necessary for a plotter to worry of. Nature abhors a monoculture and will fight against it. Ive done as John is about to do thinking grasses were overwhelming the plot, but that was years ago and I would never do so again. No argument with me either way, but also just not necessary if one chooses.
But with that said, brassica will certainly love a planting in an rotated clover plot.
 
First, if he sprays and kills the grasses, the clover will rebound. Second, the grasses eat up the excess N produced by the clover which is one reason they sneak in there to start. Have you ever seen clover die out in a yard without some chemical spray? Always stays prevalent along with a variety of other growth. Deer had the dog barking midnight last night as they ate in my front yard of 25 years. No they wont eat the grasses, but that clover will persist quite well. I see your thot, and get it, but it just not necessary for a plotter to worry of. Nature abhors a monoculture and will fight against it. Ive done as John is about to do thinking grasses were overwhelming the plot, but that was years ago and I would never do so again. No argument with me either way, but also just not necessary if one chooses.
But with that said, brassica will certainly love a planting in an rotated clover plot.
What about plot rotation ? This clover has a 3 to 5 yr lifespan is it worth saving at this point ? Since I'm so late I was going to do the rotation to brassica and start clover/rye in the plots that had the brassica the last 2 yrs
 
That 3-5 year lifespan is really hogwash. Theres guys on here that have plots well over 10 years old. I also once subscribed to that theory and was why I decided it was time to undo my clover plot. After doing so, grasses still sneak in, and I delt with more unwanted weeds than was ever happening in my original plot. It certainly is controllable, but looking back and using what I've learned, then I shouldve just kept plot active as it was. Again, I'll go back to a persons yard. Their clover never disappears if not treated. So why do we think we have to do same in a deer food plot. I'm about saving time and money and sweat and while I have annual plots that I rotate, my perennial plots are never redone anymore.
If you want to rotate and move the plot, I think that is fine. But don't do it just because you think it is toast. If you do what I suggested, next year you will still have a decent perenial plot with little effort. Yes it will have some grasses, yes even some weeds which often are deer friendly. An if you want hit it once or twice a year with cleth, and keep weeds mowed few times a year. Overseed WR into clover each fall, and trust me, it will last a very long time. Just an option, no judgement on my part. Good luck.
 
I have plow, disc harrow, tiller, cultipacker, kubota. So I'm good to go for equipment. Trying to get in an acre and 1/2 leaning towards cereal rye with clover and chicory

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Moldboard plow? If so, sell it. Chistle plow...keep it. Soil health and minimal tillage is the goal.
You can plant nice plots with a sprayer, mower, disc, and cultipacker or drag
And even if you can't cultipack, you can pack with tractor or atv wheels.
 
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