Keystone Krops

Other than the blooms getting a little crispy, any other observations on the stand? You seeing any changes in height, thickness, color, browsing?

Mennoniteman said:

My March 13th oats drilled no-till into an existing ladino clover field, after 3 1/2 months the oats are going to start to ripen shortly. I'm going to let them expire on their own, turkeys and deer will eat this grain all summer and the straw will be carbon food for the clover next summer. One downside is that the tops of the clover is looking a little old because I can't mow it to rejuvenate it like I would normally do. But I should get a heavier reseeding by not mowing. It'll be interesting to see how this clover field does next year. It was four years old and just starting to look like it needed something to rejuvenate it, that's why I drilled the oats into it this spring.

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Will you mow this plot come August to have fresh clover growth for the Fall?

MarkDarvin said:

Other than the blooms getting a little crispy, any other observations on the stand? You seeing any changes in height, thickness, color, browsing?

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The deer are in the oats hitting this clover hard. Other than brown tops from not mowing it looks about normal.

jlane35 said:

Will you mow this plot come August to have fresh clover growth for the Fall?

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I will mow after the wildlife has most of the the grain cleaned up. I'm keeping an eye on the clover growth, but the combination with the oats seems like it helps keep the grass and weeds at bay, which is my number one reason to mow. The deer have been doing a lot of the mowing for me, which helps the rejuvenation a lot.

How many pounds of oats are you planting into a stand of clover?

jlane35 said:

How many pounds of oats are you planting into a stand of clover?

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Right around 100. That's drilled with a notill drill. I also broadcast 100 lb per acre of oats into some clover in late march when there was still some soil exposed, it turned out nice, but I think that I'd go up to 150 lbs. or even 200 the next time.

I've done this type of planting before, but this year my March 13th oats experiment, where I drilled no-till bin run oats into half of an existing ladino clover field, and left half of the clover untouched for a side by side comparison has yielded a huge dividend that I wasn't anticipating.
We've had an uncommon period where the last three weeks of June have been hot weather without any rain and our ladino clover is looking very stressed for this early in the summer.
However, the half of the field with the standing almost ripe oats is still looking fresh and green compared to the other side. The oats seem to have protected the clover from the drought by shading the clover from the sun. As you can see by the treeline in the background, these two parrellel pictures are taken only 10 feet apart, both in the same direction, on the same slightly downhill slope, one on each side of the dividing line of the test, and very clearly show the difference. There were no uneven spots in this field on March 13th, it was an even, solid stand of lush green ladino clover. So, the left side not only grew a bonus crop of oats which the deer and turkeys now will strip the seed heads off of, but it also grew nicer clover. My game cam shows very equal grazing pressure on both sides up to very recently, now the greener clover is attracting more grazing. FYI, neither side has been mowed this year.

That is a cool observation! The gang up by Bismarck, ND did a trial about 13 years ago where they planted 10 or so cover crops in singular plots. It proceeded to not rain all summer, and all the single species plots fried. They mixed up all their remainder seed into one batch and also planted it at the end, and it thrived through the drought.

There's something about synergy in a mix.

March 13th oats in clover update; the deer are barely waiting for the oats to harden from dough stage to munch them down. One secluded field totally stripped, a less secluded field 200 yards away is barely touched yet. Turkeys are cleaning up what the deer leave behind. Oats are a very flexible multipurpose gem for deer plots.


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That's neat. I've never seen oats eaten like that until you posted it. Now you got me thinkin.

MarkDarvin said:

That's neat. I've never seen oats eaten like that until you posted it. Now you got me thinkin.

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The field that's eaten is where our bachelor group is hanging out at. Midsummer oat grain from oats double cropped in clover provide not only 17% protein, but also 66% carbs at a time when deer often don't have access to high carb foods such as grains and nuts.

I experimented with drilling notill soybeans into mowed clover in May. Although the soybeans came up and are providing some extra nutrients for our deer right now, the soybeans are stunted and never really grew well, probably because there were two legumes competing for nutrients. The basic rule of thumb that I ignored here; mixing different crops in the same field works best when they are totally different species, such as the proven oats and clover combo. So my final analysis is that the yield was not worth the seed an time invested. Discing a strip of the clover and planting these beans separately in that strip would have probably brought us a much better return for our planting effort.

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Mennoniteman said:

I experimented with drilling notill soybeans into mowed clover in May. Although the soybeans came up and are providing some extra nutrients for our deer right now, the soybeans are stunted and never really grew well, probably because there were two legumes competing for nutrients. The basic rule of thumb that I ignored here; mixing different crops in the same field works best when they are totally different species, such as the proven oats and clover combo. So my final analysis is that the yield was not worth the seed an time invested. Discing a strip of the clover and planting these beans separately in that strip would have probably brought us a much better return for our planting effort.

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I have found the same thing. The mix (cowpeas, buckwheat, sorghum, sunn hemp, millet, sunflowers) I drilled into my lush chicory/clover plot did nothing. Even the buckwheat was stunted. Good experiment but alas...a bust.

cutman said:

I have found the same thing. The mix (cowpeas, buckwheat, sorghum, sunn hemp, millet, sunflowers) I drilled into my lush chicory/clover plot did nothing. Even the buckwheat was stunted. Good experiment but alas...a bust.

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But drilling oats into early spring clover really works. #1, the clover is only starting to grow, and #2, two very different species that don't compete with each other.

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Mennoniteman said:

But drilling oats into early spring clover really works. #1, the clover is only starting to grow, and #2, two very different species that don't compete with each other.

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Do the oats naturally suppress weeds/grasses like WR does? Is it just taking up more space and not giving weeds/grasses the opportunity to grow? Or does it do neither? I don’t have grasses in my clover field under control. So if I can’t spray grass in the Spring, then it may be detrimental to the clover plot.

jlane35 said:

Do the oats naturally suppress weeds/grasses like WR does? Is it just taking up more space and not giving weeds/grasses the opportunity to grow? Or does it do neither? I don’t have grasses in my clover field under control. So if I can’t spray grass in the Spring, then it may be detrimental to the clover plot.

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jlane35 said:

Do the oats naturally suppress weeds/grasses like WR does? Is it just taking up more space and not giving weeds/grasses the opportunity to grow? Or does it do neither? I don’t have grasses in my clover field under control. So if I can’t spray grass in the Spring, then it may be detrimental to the clover plot.

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Yes, oats are allopathic, and they also suppress weeds by smothering them. One sign of having weeds is low phosphorus and oats are a good accumulator of phosphorus. Winter-killed oat crop residue or summer ripened oat straw provides both allopathic suppression as well as additional bio-available phosphorus. Planting oats in clover suppresses the grasses and you can still spray for broadleaf weeds with Butyrac200 if you need to.

Would you say there is any advantage to alternating between fall planted cereals and spring planted cereals in established clover? Say fall of ‘20 broadcast ww and wr, then fall of ‘21 hold off on the cereals and broadcast spring oats in ‘22? I would think spring oats would have a difficult time if broadcasted in clover with maturing fall planted cereals already in the ground. I don’t have access to no-till equipment.

KSQ2 said:

Would you say there is any advantage to alternating between fall planted cereals and spring planted cereals in established clover? Say fall of ‘20 broadcast ww and wr, then fall of ‘21 hold off on the cereals and broadcast spring oats in ‘22? I would think spring oats would have a difficult time if broadcasted in clover with maturing fall planted cereals already in the ground. I don’t have access to no-till equipment.

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Yes, you don't want to plant spring oats if you had fall rye. Now if you are talking fall oats, they winter kill in our area, so therefore I could do both, but probably wouldn't. I broadcast oats into a ladino clover plot in early April, and they did amazingly well, every bit as good as a notill drill. The key for spring oats is to get them in early, before the clover chokes them out. Late summer oats, WW and WR is more complicated, a thick stand of clover won't let the grain get established. I'd broadcast the grain and then mow the clover low, a typical throw n mow planting, or broadcast the seeds and run the disk through lightly. Right before a rain ups your success for fall plots. In the spring timing the rain isn't important. Growing grains in existing clover balances the carbon/nitrogen in the soil but messes with mowing and herbicide schedules, so I like to balance between the two alternatives, sometimes even adding more clover seed to the mix.

Mennoniteman said:

Yes, you don't want to plant spring oats if you had fall rye. Now if you are talking fall oats, they winter kill in our area, so therefore I could do both, but probably wouldn't. I broadcast oats into a ladino clover plot in early April, and they did amazingly well, every bit as good as a notill drill. The key for spring oats is to get them in early, before the clover chokes them out. Late summer oats, WW and WR is more complicated, a thick stand of clover won't let the grain get established. I'd broadcast the grain and then mow the clover low, a typical throw n mow planting, or broadcast the seeds and run the disk through lightly. Right before a rain ups your success for fall plots. In the spring timing the rain isn't important. Growing grains in existing clover balances the carbon/nitrogen in the soil but messes with mowing and herbicide schedules, so I like to balance between the two alternatives, sometimes even adding more clover seed to the mix.

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Yes, whether a spring broadcast or fall, I plan to mow the clover super low after broadcasting.

Mixing builders sand with white latex interior paint to paint young fruit tree trunks to prevent boring insects, fungal disease,, sunscald and cracking from freezing and thawing, insect damage, and to keep deer, mice, rabbits, and porcupines from eating the bark.
Never use oil base paint, only organic based interior latex. I mix close to 50-50 and add just a dash of water.

I heard somewhere that you should "brush in" your hunting location, so I "brushed" in my hunting blind.